How a Friendly Wager Turned Into a National Franchise Brand—Red Boswell, President, IFPG

Have you ever made a friendly wager before? Did much of anything come of it? If you’re like most of us, the answer is probably nothing more than a few good laughs. In today’s episode, Red Boswell shares his story about how he turned a friendly wager into an industry-leading franchise company. Red shares how he eventually sold his company and is now the President of the International Franchise Professionals Group (IFPG), the world’s largest franchise broker and franchise referral consultant organization.


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Red brings more than 25 years of executive leadership in many areas of franchising, marketing, and entrepreneurship. In his role as President of IFPG, Red is responsible for growing membership as well as developing and overseeing new and exciting programs to support the Franchise Consultant network.  Red’s career includes key positions with Expense Reduction Analysts and ActionCOACH. As founder of Pet Butler, a nationwide chain of pet-service franchises, Red launched the brand and built it to more than 100 locations before selling it in 2010. A franchise enthusiast, Red can be found at all major industry events and is currently working on an MBA from Palm Beach Atlantic University’s Titus Center for Franchising. Red and his wife, Shell, live in Carrollton, TX with their three teenage children.


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Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (00:01):

You’ve worked hard to build your business and now it’s time to grow. Welcome to the Multiply Your Success Podcast. I’m your host, Tom DuFore, CEO of Big Sky Franchise Team and a serial entrepreneur. And the purpose of our podcast is to give you a weekly dose of inspiration and education to help you multiply your success. As we get started on our episode today, I’m wondering if you have ever made a friendly wager with some friends almost as a joke that you would do something or get something done.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (00:33):

I’m sure we’ve all probably done something like that. Well, have you ever taken one of those friendly jokes and turned it into an actual business and enterprise? For most of us, at least I can say for me, I have not, but our guests today, Red Boswell, took almost a joke, half joking idea, from a mastermind group that he was part of and turn that into a business. And not just any business, he franchised it. It was called the Pet Butler.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (01:11):

Turned it into a national brand, and then ended up selling it and is now back in franchising heading up the International Franchise Professionals Group as the president of the IFPG, which is really remarkable. Just a tremendous story and you’re really going to enjoy Red. I’ve had the good fortune of knowing Red now for several years. We met at an International Franchise Convention several years ago.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (01:34):

He is just a franchise enthusiast, advocate, and someone you can really learn a lot from as you’re expanding and growing your business and building a national brand. Let’s go ahead and jump into my interview with Red Boswell.

Red Boswell, IFPG (01:50):

Red Boswell, president of IFPG. You can see it in the background here, International Franchise Professionals Group. They’re the largest broker or consultant referral organization in the world helping hundreds and hundreds of franchisors and tens of thousands of folks find their dream franchise. I’m based in Dallas, Texas area and really for about 30 years now had just been in love with entrepreneurship. I mean, even in grade school, I was starting businesses and helping friends start businesses. In college, started a bunch of businesses.

Red Boswell, IFPG (02:21):

I was just always starting things, having fun, creative type, and got a lot of fulfillment from that. Believe it or not, 30 years ago, I got recruited into Amway. Go figure. I did Amway for like a year or two, but it instilled so much in me about helping other people achieve their dreams in business. I’ve never gotten that out of my system. I just love it. And also it instilled the books, tapes, and functions, the constantly learning, and it matters who you associate with. I’ve never lost that and pray I never do.

Red Boswell, IFPG (02:56):

Lastly, I guess, if you had to describe me, about probably 15, 20 years ago, I came up with five words that describe me and still today it’s exactly who I feel I am in the business world, entrepreneurial franchisee executive that loves sales and marketing. That’s Red Boswell.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (03:15):

Oh, I love it. I love it. Perfect five words to describe you. And having known you for many years now, that summarizes you perfectly, perfectly.

Red Boswell, IFPG (03:27):

Good looking too, right?

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (03:28):

Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. Yeah. Well, one of the things I wanted to ask you about is you mentioned being in high school starting some entrepreneurial ventures, which is, by the way, seems to be kind of a common theme I’ve heard in interviewing our serial entrepreneurs, that they start businesses as kids and in high school. It’s kind of this consistent trend I’ve seen and heard other people talking about, which is really, really neat. How did you go from that, then you were at Amway, and then what?

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (03:59):

I mean, how do you become… You’re the president of the IFPG, the largest broker and franchise referral company in the world. How do you make that transition, Amway to that? What happens in between?

Red Boswell, IFPG (04:13):

Well, Tom, I had various jobs while doing it, because you got to pay the bills while you’re trying to build a dream. And then in 1998, it shows my age, I had started back in 1995 a group based a Ben Franklin autobiography. In his autobiography, Ben Franklin talks about the Junto. It’s a group of like-minded entrepreneurial businessman who get together to talk about religion, politics, women, and affairs of the day. That’s how he defined it. We expanded it to some other things. We did book reports and accountability.

Red Boswell, IFPG (04:50):

Well, in that, the guys knew I was frustrated. I was wanting to do something new. I launched in ’98 four different businesses that year alone, but one of them was a joke. It was a pooper scooper business. It was cleaning up dog mess. They had challenged me. It was a joke I came up with and I said, “Yeah, I’ll do that.” And it never died. People think it took off. It really never took off. I mean, I, seriously, no exaggeration, I took one vacation in 10 years, and that was my honeymoon.

Red Boswell, IFPG (05:22):

I worked it day and night. When I was on dates with girls that I was considering getting a serious relationship, I would put out signs on the side of the road, really just going all out, guerrilla marketing. And if they had a problem with it, they were disqualified from dating. Fanatical. Sold out 100% mentally and physically. It never took off, but it did grow. When you do it every day for 10 years in an obsession, you can make some pretty good money and build a pretty good business. That’s what I did. Decided to sell it.

Red Boswell, IFPG (05:59):

Hired a consultant. Consultant’s like “You got great model. You got great margins. Why in the world you want to sell this? You need to take it national.” I don’t know what that meant. I mean, I had to get loans. I don’t know how to take it national. He’s like, “I don’t know either, but let’s research it.” So we researched licensing. We researched, of course, corporate, and we researched franchising. What is this? And franchising was a hands-down no-brainer because you keep control of the brand, and yet, you get to help other people achieve their dreams in business.

Red Boswell, IFPG (06:29):

Be that cultish leader in some cases and just build something you can be proud of for generations. Franchising was hands down the way I took it.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (06:41):

Yeah. Yeah. Now you’re at this point and you get the franchise. You say, “Hey, let’s franchise,” which by the way, that’s a pretty great that an advisor or someone you’re meeting with to sell the business looks at it and says, “Wait, wait, wait, Red, you’re onto something here,” which is telling because that person probably meets with lots of folks about selling their business and just runs it through a standard process and moves it through. Clearly you had something there. So then you go through, you start franchising, and then what happens?

Red Boswell, IFPG (07:15):

Well, I was fortunate in many ways in that it was my work ethic and the coolness, the uniqueness of the opportunity, I made plenty of mistakes, but I got good PR. Tell you what, I milked the public relations. Back then, PR was much more lead gen. Today, PR is more of a lead nurturing. Back then, really hit that hard. Also, SEO was a bit new in the world back in 1990 or 2004, ’05, ’06. I had less competitions. We’re doing heavy SEO, and we’re doing a lot of portals. Back then, portals were fairly new.

Red Boswell, IFPG (07:56):

Today, they’re pretty, pretty saturated, but those three avenues really helped me grow it. And over three and a half year period, we averaged three new franchises awarded per month. Built it up to about 140 total units, total territories. In our case, about 64 Zs. We got hit hard, made a lot of mistakes, learned and grew. We were fortunate that we had those sales helping us. 2008, ’09 and ’10 were rough for anybody in the franchise arena. It’s not like today. Lending was not there. Home equity was way down. 401(k)s were way down.

Red Boswell, IFPG (08:36):

Interest rates were way up. There’s just so many problems that we don’t have today. Anyway, I did sell the original business for seven figures back in early ’08, and then late ’10, sold the franchisor to a wonderful company that still is running it today. In fact, it got sold twice now and it’s thriving like never before. Super, super proud. In fact, I would put that in my top two or three proudest things I’ve ever done. Just building that franchise organization puts the biggest smile on my soul.

Red Boswell, IFPG (09:07):

Then from there, I started franchise consulting in the traditional sense. Marketing and franchise consulting for a few years. I loved it, but the wife hated the up and down nature of the clients coming and going. You know how that is? I see the laughter.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (09:23):

Oh yeah.

Red Boswell, IFPG (09:26):

At the time, I got offered a pretty awesome opportunity to head up a franchise development for a global brand and loved that for about almost three years. And then the biggest brand in that category in the world offered me their global development role. I loved that, had a blast, and built those organizations, both of those organizations over multiple years with the consultant groups. That’s how I got into this world of the franchise referral consultants is I did so many deals with them, I fell in love with them.

Red Boswell, IFPG (10:00):

I’ve never been happier transitioning building upon building upon building. You would think, “Man, you’re a franchisor. Where do you go from there?” I just love what I do so much. We get to help not just my franchisees, which I got to help back then, but I get to help an extension of me or the 630 consultants all helping dozens and dozens of people each year find their franchises. And then I get to consult with 480 franchisors helping them grow and then all these vendors. I have a blast every day with IFPG.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (10:37):

Yeah. Oh, that’s amazing. Well, one of the things you mentioned that I’m curious about, I think it’s something that probably a lot of growing business owners and folks who are maybe at some phase of their franchise growth, when you reach that point where you realized, hey, I think it’s time to exit out of the franchise business, you built it up to about 140 units, in ’08, ’09, the economy certainly got rocked at that point, which maybe helped nudge you in a direction to say, “Hey, I need to make a decision with this. What am I going to do?”

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (11:13):

But I’m curious about your thought process and what you went through in thinking and making that transition.

Red Boswell, IFPG (11:21):

Sure. Well, let’s hit it in two parts. My baby was… The company was called Pet Butler. Pet Butler I founded in ’98 and built it up, built it up, built it up and franchised along the way. And then I had two babies. I had Pet Butler DFW, Dallas-Fort Worth, the original model, and then I had the franchise entity, which is Pet Butler Franchise Services. Similar names, but different entities all under my umbrella.

Red Boswell, IFPG (11:47):

Well, I kept Pet Butler DFW, the original entity, because I learned a little bit through the IFA and all the different books I was reading about franchising that revenue self-sustainability, the royalty sustainability, where you no longer have to sell franchises and you can still make it all ends meet. I knew that was important. Well, my cash cow was that local business, but my franchise entity, yeah, I’m selling franchises left and right, but I had built it like so many franchisors where I made very little money selling franchises.

Red Boswell, IFPG (12:21):

The big play was royalties. I knew that if I sold the cash cow, I didn’t have money to pay the bills and keep my employees happy, and so we would fall apart. I kept the cash cow, the original business, until I reached royalty self-sustainability. Even if I didn’t sell a single franchise, royalties were covering all overhead, paying my bills, putting food on the table. So that’s when the trigger was I’ll sell Dallas-Fort Worth get…

Red Boswell, IFPG (12:53):

Because I was 90-95% focused on the franchisor, but I still had this side business, paid all the bills, cash cow, but I wasn’t focusing on it. It was like I divorced that, but it still had to support it. When I didn’t need it anymore, sweet, sell it. Small seven-figure sell. Beautiful sell. Had a new franchisee that ran it, focused on it, and I got royalties from him. I still got a nice income from that original business. It was beautiful. The problem was, the good thing, the bad thing is I sold it.

Red Boswell, IFPG (13:25):

Man, if you remember like May 1st of 2008, I mean, the world’s falling apart. Banks are freaking out. Everybody’s tripping. We closed like on the day before May 1st. It was just very fortuitous that it got closed at all. And then for two and a half years, we didn’t sell a franchise. I mean, we had gone, boom, boom, boom, and then nothing. It wasn’t validation problem. It was nobody’s buying. Nobody’s lending. The sky’s fallen. How did I then go about as a big ramp up to how did I decide to sell the franchisor?

Red Boswell, IFPG (13:59):

Well, two and a half years of no franchise sells, remember, I hit royalty self-sustainability, I can handle that. But when…

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (14:06):

Which by the way… Sorry to interrupt, Red, but I mean, that very wise decision to make on that. Look, obviously you never know what’s going to happen and boom, there it is. Hey, because you had made that decision, I’m not doing it until, and that until happened and you were able to weather the storm that came along that you weren’t… No one was really ready for that.

Red Boswell, IFPG (14:31):

Well, thank you very much, Tom. I sort of weathered the storm. Royalties were good. Franchise fees were a bonus. Well, we stopped selling franchises. We’re cool there. Almost every month, certainly every quarter, franchise royalties were increasing. I’m like, man, I’m seeing the yacht, baby. Maybe I’m seeing all the things you dream of for your whole life being able to finally one day purchase, because we were putting everything back in the company. I mean, the million plus that I sold the original business for, we put it back in the franchisor.

Red Boswell, IFPG (15:03):

Everything, sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice. I’m going to retire at 35. That sort of mindset, right? Well, not only do we not sell any franchises, which again was okay financially, but the franchisees were buying into the hype, watching the news, and stopped marketing. I taught my franchisees, you are not a pet service that markets. You are a marketer that provides a pet service. Your job is to market. The pet service part is easy. Market, market, market all day long. We are a marketing company. When you stop marketing, you stop growing.

Red Boswell, IFPG (15:42):

In fact, you start shrinking. Attrition and happens. Half my guys, half my Z’s, stopped marketing. They were freaking out. Some of them lost their job, their spouse’s job, and they had to move. I started I lost some franchisees. Franchisees started shrinking. I wasn’t adding any new ones. I started doubling down on my marketing to get new ones and I wasn’t getting new ones because no one was lending. It was just a perfect storm of problems. I even had a COO that embezzled from me during that time.

Red Boswell, IFPG (16:09):

We had invested half a million into an infrastructure of software to support all our franchisees and that needed some serious upgrades. All these things were hitting from every angle. I would love to say, man, built her up to eight figures, cashed in, and got the yacht. I didn’t. It was a struggle. But I had plenty of friends in franchising had a complimentary franchisor and was able to protect 100% of my franchisees. They benefited from that sale, and I made it out without losing my home.

Red Boswell, IFPG (16:42):

It was a tough time, but we took care of the franchisees and that’s what mattered most.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (16:47):

Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like it’s been through a few exchanges, as you described, a few… It’s gone through a few hands at this point and is doing well. I’m sure for you to see kind of the original baby living on and still doing well, and I’m sure some franchisees are probably still in the system that you were a part of back then.

Red Boswell, IFPG (17:09):

That system, it has been 11 years since I had anything to do with it. The vast majority of the franchisees they have are my babies still, still. No one failed. Zero failures still today to my knowledge. I’m super proud of that. They’re really heavy on social media, so I get big smiles all the time when I see the post of how they’re doing and growing and all.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (17:33):

Oh, that’s so cool. That’s so cool. Well, this is a great time and opportunity for us to shift into our questions we like to ask every guest. Red, you’re in the hot seat now. He’s fanning himself if you’re not watching it. He’s getting prepared. The first question we’d like to ask every guest is about a miss or two that came along the way and something you learned from it.

Red Boswell, IFPG (18:01):

A miss. A mistake, a miss. This is a miss. I’ll give a couple. I tend to be extremely trusting. I can’t help it. I’m an optimist, and I like everybody and I trust pretty much everybody. It’s ridiculous. I don’t know if I changed that, but it has certainly messed me up many a time. I think the best of people. I see the best in people. Again, I don’t know that I want that to change, but it has bit me in the butt way too many times, because not everybody’s good.

Red Boswell, IFPG (18:38):

In hiring some folks, that COO that embezzled that I told you about, I mean, I would have never guessed in a million years, but it happens. Number two, and this is a big life lesson for me over and over again too, you think it’s a lesson, that means you learn it, it’s a lesson I need to learn and I’ve learned some of it, get it in writing. How simple. It’s kind of a cliche, but get it in writing. I’ve had so many things. Most people when they lie, seriously, they don’t mean to lie there. They mean well, but they say things and then forget them. Okay?

Red Boswell, IFPG (19:13):

I have best friends that have sold me things that mattered greatly, and then they forget that they said it and we didn’t get into writing. Again, it goes back to the little bit of a trusting and positive nature I have. Those are two misses. The first one, I don’t know if I would change my trusting nature. The second one, man, trust, but get in writing. Even three years ago, I had an opportunity, a massive life change, where I went to work with a certain organization and made massive promises, and then those promises disappeared and they forgot all about them.

Red Boswell, IFPG (19:49):

It’s why didn’t I just get a little couple sentences in writing? What was I thinking? Those are some life misses for sure.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (19:57):

Yeah. Well, I relate to you there. I describe myself very similarly to how you do, where I’m just overly trusting. I have no reason to not. I mean, I just am very trusting. To your point, sometimes it can come back and bite you. But I’d rather err on, hey, just take it and trust and go with it. I relate on a personal level to you there. Well, let’s take a look and flip this on the other side and talk about a make or a win or two that you had along the way. You’ve already described several, but are there any others or maybe reemphasis of some you’ve talked about here?

Red Boswell, IFPG (20:38):

Well, certainly you can’t talk about your wins without talking about your spouse and your kids. Couldn’t be more blessed to have a wonderful spouse and great kids. Those are no brainer, what is it called, a make. Those are makes. I made those kids, so double make. Pet Butler is a huge make for me and each building upon the experience has been a blast. And man, this sounds kind of cheesy, but I don’t know how I could love a job more.

Red Boswell, IFPG (21:18):

With an entrepreneurial background, you would think I would just start another franchise or buy a bunch of franchises or certainly not be working my tail off 50 hours plus a week for someone else. But bro, I love it. I love it. I love it. I do. I get to work early. I wake up. I don’t even need an alarm clock half the time because I just can’t wait to get into work, and it’s weird how much I enjoy this job. But it’s just fun. It’s so rewarding to me. And I never thought a job, J-O-B, just over broke, I never thought I would have a job I love so much, but I really do.

Red Boswell, IFPG (21:54):

To me, that is a massive make, just to be able to love what you do every day.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (22:00):

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And your level of enthusiasm, I mean, I know it’s real. It shines. It comes right through. It’s bright and I appreciate it. I do. I really do.

Red Boswell, IFPG (22:11):

You too. Thank you.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (22:13):

Thanks. Now let’s move to this question about a multiplier. What multiplier or two might you point out that you’ve used in your career, personally to help you grow, develop is as you’ve expanded in your life?

Red Boswell, IFPG (22:30):

Sure. I’m a fanatic about knowing yourself. Know thyself I think was some ancient age said. That may sound kind of like, well, duh, but man, knowing yourself, knowing your strengths, knowing your weaknesses, knowing you’re trusting nature, and knowing what you get fulfillment out of and what you enjoy, what you’re good at, what you’re not good at, those things matter so much. Life is so short. The way I multiply my success I think is number one, knowing myself well, setting very, very clear priorities.

Red Boswell, IFPG (23:06):

That’s part of knowing yourself, knowing, again, what the priorities are that reach that fulfillment. And then how do I get there? Besides constantly keeping those goals and those priorities in front of me, I read a bunch. Reading can come in the eyes in the ears. I do a bunch of Audible. It’s a fantastic resource. I went from 12 books a year to about 60 a year through Audible. I find I absorb more through my ears than my eyes, because I can see it with my ears so well when they’re talking. I just absolutely love Audible.

Red Boswell, IFPG (23:43):

That’s helped me a ton and it gives me so much more confidence because I’m constantly learning, growing. I think Zig Ziglar said if you read five books on any topic, you’re a world-class expert on that topic because nobody reads five books on a topic. When you’re reading 50 or 60 books a year on similar topics, franchising, self-help discipline, growth, success, religion, it can make a huge difference in your confidence and in your capabilities.

Red Boswell, IFPG (24:13):

That’s really taken me the next level. Of course, what I said earlier with the associating with the right people helps your mindset big time too.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (24:21):

Yeah, yeah, no, that’s fantastic. All of those are just huge. I see how that can help you grow, multiply, expand, do what you need to do.

Red Boswell, IFPG (24:32):

And working. Working in your strength. I mean, I know I kind of touched on that, but really knowing yourself and then finding what that strength. Now, part of that multiplier, part of that success is money. Again, Zig Ziglar said money ain’t everything, but it’s right up there with oxygen. To have that success, it does require some money sometimes.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (24:57):

Yeah. Yeah. It’s interesting when you think about people who are either unwilling or unknowingly unwilling to kind of explore their own inside. I’ve always thought that folks who maybe are less inclined to it, maybe they’re just scared about what they’re going to find. It’s like, whoa, if I do self-exploration, holy cow, I have to hold myself accountable now. It’s a little scary sometimes.

Red Boswell, IFPG (25:25):

Absolutely. Apathy gets in the way and fear.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (25:28):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Red, the last question we like to ask every guest is, what does success mean to you?

Red Boswell, IFPG (25:37):

Success. All right, well, hey, we were just talking about success and when I mentioned the money part of success. Success is fulfillment. What is fulfillment? I’d say it’s integrity to yourself, being authentic. How am I authentic? It goes back to knowing myself. It’s hard to be authentic if you really don’t understand yourself well. Choices is part of that success. Having choices. Now, money gives you lots and lots of choices. And then knowing that you’ve truly lived that authentic you, you’ve been real. You’ve been transparent.

Red Boswell, IFPG (26:16):

You’ve been over trusting in my case, and I don’t regret that as we talked about. A big part of my success is through my eyes is my children. So even before I had kids, part of my life goals was to have achieving genuine loving children. So far so good there. I’ve got one going to be leaving the nest here in two or three months, and he’s already working in franchising. I kind of love that. That’s an extra bonus. I take him on a lot of business trips with me so they can experience it and we can get some great one-on-one time.

Red Boswell, IFPG (26:53):

To see your oldest child fall in love with franchising at 18 and want to be a franchise consultant/broker before he’s 19, I don’t know, we’ll make that happen, but it just gives you that extra bunch of, man, awesome. I’m so proud of him. A successful marriage over 20 years. Wonderful children. They’re not perfect. They make plenty of mistakes. But the fulfillment of a marriage, not perfect also, but dedicated to one another, great kids, and then living your calling in franchising, helping other people, and making a little money in the process, I feel that that is true success.

Red Boswell, IFPG (27:30):

Of course, my Christian faith is the foundation of all of that.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (27:33):

Red, thank you so much for just an amazing interview. It’s always great to connect. Thank you so much for being on the show. Let’s go ahead and jump into our three key takeaways. The first key takeaway is when Red was talking about the Junto or the Junto that Ben Franklin started and that he and some of his friends started basically a mastermind group, their own version of that, where they would get together and meet and hold one another accountable and growing their companies and businesses and ideas.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (28:06):

I love that through that group, Red was able to take really just almost a joke of an idea and turn that into a business, and then franchise it, grow it nationally, end up selling that, which led him now to the IFPG as the president of the largest franchise broker and franchise referral consultant company in the country or in the world, I should say, which is pretty incredible. Number two, Red said that he waited before he sold his original company owned location until he had hit royalty sustainability.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (28:49):

If you’re not as familiar with the franchise world or franchise community, royalty sustainability is a big deal. That means that your royalties can cover all of your operating expenses, including your salary, if you’re still the owner and the CEO of the franchise company, that it can cover all of your operating expenses and you don’t have to rely on franchise fees coming in. You don’t have to rely upon the revenue from the original company owned location or two that you had when you started franchising. That’s a big deal.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (29:23):

And the third key takeaway that I took from Red, and this is one that we’ve all probably learned a hard lesson on at some point in our life, but it’s when he said make sure you get it in writing. Whatever it is, just get it in writing. Have it written down. Have it in writing. It helps clarify exactly what you are all committing to or promising to do or what someone else is promising to do for you. I thought that was just a great reminder, a great takeaway, and just a great lesson learned that Red talked about in the interview. And now it’s time for today’s win-win.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (30:06):

Today’s win-win comes from when Red talked about knowing yourself. Know yourself and understand yourself and use that… And he talked about that as it relates to what success means to him. I thought that was great. If you know yourself, well, it’s a lot easier to identify what’s important to you. Once you know what’s important, then you can identify what success means for you. I thought that was really, really well done. Red, thank you so much again for being here. This was an awesome interview. I’m so grateful for it.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (30:44):

And that’s the episode today, folks. Please make sure you subscribe to the podcast and give us a review. And remember, if you or anyone you know might be ready to franchise their business or take their franchise company to the next level, please connect with us at Thanks for tuning in and we look forward to having you back next week.

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