Redefining Success for Your Business—Tim Schurrer, CEO, David Novak Leadership

Do you have your own definition of what success means to you? And one that is not a business goal? If you are thinking success is hitting your year-end revenue numbers, selling a certain amount of franchises, or having a personal income threshold, then this episode is for you.


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Tim Schurrer knows what it takes to build a winning team. He spent almost a decade of his career launching two brands—StoryBrand and Business Made Simple—as COO alongside New York Times bestselling author Donald Miller. Before that, Tim worked at TOMS as well as Apple Inc. 

Tim is the author of The Secret Society of Success and the host of the Build a Winning Team podcast. He’s also the CEO of David Novak Leadership, a 501(c)(3) private operating foundation whose mission is to make the world a better place by developing better leaders at every stage of life. 

Tim lives in Nashville, Tennessee, with his wife, Katie, and their two kids.


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Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (00:01):

Welcome to the Multiply Your Success podcast, where each week, we help growth-minded entrepreneurs and franchise leaders take the next step in their expansion journey. I’m your host, Tom DuFore, CEO of Big Sky Franchise Team, and as we open today, I’m wondering if you have your own definition, what success means to you, and one that’s not business goal. If you’re thinking that success is hitting your year-end revenue numbers, selling a certain amount of franchises, or having a personal income threshold that you’re shooting for, then this episode is for you. Our guest today is Tim Schurrer, and he is the centerpoint, three of my personal worlds all colliding together. By the way, he doesn’t know this.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (00:47):

The first world that’s colliding together is through his time spent with Donald Miller and StoryBrand. Tim was behind the scenes helping build Donald Miller’s businesses, both StoryBrand and Business Made Simple for 10 years, and I consider Donald Miller a mentor of mine, even though we don’t know one another, and his businesses, Donald Miller’s companies, are aspirational organizations that I use as an example of how I look to run and operate our business. The second world is franchising. Tim is now the CEO of David Novak Leadership. If you don’t know who David Novak is, he’s the retired Chairman and CEO of Yum! Brands, which is one of the most well-known franchise organizations in the world with more than 45,000 restaurants in 135 countries.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (01:38):

The third world is mindset. Tim recently wrote the bestselling book, The Secret Society of Success, which mirrors this whole podcast’s approach and my personal leadership style. After I read Tim’s book, I told my marketing team we had to get him on the podcast for an interview because I was just so impressed and I loved the entire message and everything he shared in his book. Fortunately, he agreed to be on the show, and he did so right away, and I’m just so grateful and thankful for his time, so Tim, thanks again. By the way, quick housekeeping item, about halfway through our interview, my quality microphone went out, and I had to use my computer mic for about the last half of the interview, so if you hear a difference, that’s what happened. So with all of that said, let’s go ahead and get into my interview with Tim Schurrer.

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (02:34):

Yeah, my name’s Tim Schurrer, and I’m an author, speaker, and also recently just became the CEO of David Novak Leadership. David used to be the CEO of Yum! Brands, so KFC, Taco Bell, Pizza Hut. After he retired from Yum!, he started this nonprofit, and the mission is make the world a better place by developing better leaders, and so I just started doing that in August, and it’s just been an amazing journey getting to spend time with him, but also so much of what I spend my time doing is helping people and companies shape the way that they show up as leaders, and then getting to see the kind of impact that that can make on their culture and their team as a whole, so it’s really fulfilling work and I kind of pinch myself every day.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (03:28):

That’s incredible, and I heard David recently, I think it was on The EntreLeadership Podcast. He was on talking about his new book and some of the different things he’s doing, so certainly, he’s in your book and interviewed there, so how did the two of you connect and run together?

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (03:42):

For 10 years, I worked with a guy named Donald Miller and built two brands, StoryBrand and Business Made Simple, and so part of my story is I had this dream about five years ago. I wanted to write a book. Here, I was COO of this company, and a lot of team members that I was helping to lead, and it’s hard to want to do a book, and also that, and the closer and closer I got to the book releasing, the more I realized I can’t do both of these things well. Like something’s going to drop, and I made a impossible decision, walked away from a dream job to chase a new dream, so then, my book came out in May, but as I was transitioning out of StoryBrand, I started thinking, “You know, it’d be fun to have one person that I could work alongside as a consultant,” and I knew somebody who worked with David, and I approached them and said, “Hey, I know y’all have this podcast that …” They’re interviewing …

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (04:48):

It’s called How Leaders Lead, and so the whole idea is how do these great leaders show up, and how can that podcast be used as another way of inspiring other leaders to grow and develop as leaders? People like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, but also the CEOs of companies like Target, or DICK’S Sporting Goods, or Pepsi are … I mean, it’s amazing, the guest list, and so I went to David and I said, “I feel like I could help. I love what you’re doing, and would love to be a part of it.” Long story short, he said yes, and I started working with him on the podcast just as a consultant, and then yeah, this summer, then asked me to take a even larger role and help lead his entire organization, so it’s been a wild ride.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (05:40):

Certainly, our clients and just the work we do in the franchise world, David is a very well-recognized figure and it’s really exciting for what you’re doing to be a part of that. Just curiosity, where do you see it going with what he’s doing and the work that you’re doing there?

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (05:58):

Leaders have a massive impact ability and opportunity, and there’s so much potential. Like if you can just equip and empower leaders to be at their best, anything is possible, because the ripple effect of that. It’s really hard to measure that impact, but I know that great leaders have the ability to build great businesses and they have the ability to lead amazing teams, and so right now, the two avenues is the podcast, one of the big ways that we’re trying to inspire and influence leaders, but also through our digital leadership programs. One of the big things that David said to me is, “Hey …” It was a nonprofit, but there were still products that were being sold at a cost, and so we made this decision.

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (06:50):

David said, “What I really want is impact, and what if we could remove the price barrier from all of this and just give away our content?,” and so we just released a new online course that’s available at If people go to that page, they can opt in to get free access to this online course, and so what this looks like, the future, where this is all going is I want tens of thousands, if not, hundreds of thousands of people going through our leadership content and being able to do it for free. I mean, it’s crazy. Most small and medium-sized business owners don’t have the caliber of leadership content that David is putting together, and so I’m just really passionate about trying to get this leadership content in the hands of as many people as possible. That’s what I see. I want a bunch of people going through it and I want healthy company cultures, and I want leaders who feel like they’re being developed and invested in, and whatever resources and opportunities I can create for people, I feel like I’m wanting to do that.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (08:05):

That sounds amazing. We’ll make sure we include all of that in the show notes and get access and promote that link as well, but while we’re on that subject, developing great leaders and company cultures, your book, I think is also part of that equation, and one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on, to talk about The Secret Society of Success, in the book, you talk about Spotlight Mindset and you talk about The Secret Society of Success, and so just by way of introduction and starting, I’d love for you to talk a little bit about what the Spotlight Mindset is.

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (08:39):

All of us are in this conversation about success, whether we realize we’re in it or not. Most of the time, when people talk about success or what it means to be successful, we think we have to step into the spotlight, climb the ladder, be the boss, have the most number of franchises, have really profitable, successful franchises, right? We feel like our success is contingent on those things happening or being a part of our story, but there’s a group of people that I’ve kind of come to define as The Secret Society of Success that have shown me a new way to live and a new way to define success that’s not fame, money, and power, right? These are very traditional markers of success, but I’m wanting to start a conversation on, what if it could look a little bit differently because I don’t know if that’s it? The people that I’ve been inspired by haven’t been the people who are usually in this camp where they’ve made the most amount of money or they have the most number of followers.

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (09:50):

I’ve been inspired by a lot of people that no one’s ever heard of, so how can we start to live a little bit differently based on looking at success just a little bit differently? And so if there is a thing that is going to keep us from The Secret Society of Success, it’s something that I call the Spotlight Mindset, this unhealthy desire for attention and recognition. I think there’s a part in all of us that we want, as just human beings, a desire that we have is to be seen, and noticed, and appreciated, and valued, and so what happens is so many of us don’t get that. We don’t get the accolade necessarily, or we work really hard, but we don’t get the credit that we feel like we deserve, and so what happens then is we start demanding the attention, right? We are trying to do everything that we can to just feel seen and noticed.

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (10:51):

What can happen is if we live in that world or in that headspace for too long, it can lead us into a pretty gnarly path, and so there’s several symptoms that I feel like are a part of the Spotlight Mindset, where it shows up in your life, whether it’s through comparison. Are you constantly looking at the people next to you, other friends of yours that have businesses and equating your own success based on how you stack up, compared their success or the number of employees they have at their company, or maybe it’s striving? No matter the level that you get to in your life or in your business, there’s always another level. So are you just perpetually unhappy? Maybe striving is a thing that is kind of keeping you trapped in the Spotlight Mindset, but there’s so many others like a fear of failure, seeking validation.

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (11:49):

It’s important for us to identify that the Spotlight Mindset even exists so that we can choose to go about things a little bit differently, and so what I’m trying to do is just put some language to things that are real and that are human. The reality is we want to feel seen and noticed, but I don’t know if that’s the best part of us that wants to always be raising our hand, demanding that people pay attention to us. I actually think that kind of a higher way of operating and thinking and living is to actually think less about yourself than to think more about others and how you can show up and help other people win, and so how do we start to make that transition? I think the way that we start to do it is by starting to look at success a little bit differently.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (12:41):

And so let’s dive into looking at success differently. Every week, we ask each guest, and we’ll ask you before you go what your definition of success is and what that means to you, but let’s talk about The Secret Society of Success and define that for the audience if they haven’t read the book yet and what that looks like.

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (13:00):

The book walks through … In each chapter, it’s like a new paradigm shift for how we can look at success and think about it a little bit differently. One of my favorite stories is of LeBron James. In 2020, LeBron and the Lakers, they won the NBA Finals. You’d think a guy like LeBron would want to be the scoring leader in the NBA, but what’s interesting to me is in 2020, LeBron did not lead the NBA in scoring. He wasn’t even in the top five. What I loved though, is that in 2020, LeBron James led the NBA in assists.

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (13:39):

Meaning, that the way he chose to play and ultimately, how he and his team won was by LeBron setting other people up to score. So what if success is in the assist? What if we, in how we show up every day, was to think of how we can be assisting others, helping someone else win, right? It’s just so countercultural because everyone, if they want to be successful, being the competitive, driven business leaders that they are, they think, “All right. Well, if I want to be successful, I got to take things in my own hands.”

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (14:16):

“I got to make this happen for myself,” so it’s a little counterintuitive to say, “What if the way that you actually find success is starting to look at success by being all about the assist and just trusting that the rest is going to take care of itself?” That to me, that’s a way that people are not talking about success today, but something that’s been so impactful as I have learned more about how LeBron James shows up in his life.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (14:46):

I loved reading that in the book, and certainly several others that you shared, but that one in particular, your setup was excellent about LeBron James winning the championship. Certainly, you’d think he’s the best player in basketball. He’s got to be the scoring leader, but it turns out, the assist, and when I read that, really drove the point home from what you were trying to make that point of what being successful looks like in the eyes of The Secret Society.

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (15:11):

Yeah, and I was just in Akron, Ohio and got to visit the I Promise School, so LeBron James, he’s not just all about the assist when he’s on the court, he’s actually all about the assist even off of the court, and so the I Promise School that I was able to visit, I went to meet with the LeBron James Family Foundation, they started the I Promise School in partnership with the Akron Public School System, they took the bottom 25% of academic performers, kids who are at risk of graduating from high school. What they’ve done through the I Promise School is starting in third grade, they’re setting these kids on a path to try to help them graduate, providing holistic care for them and their families as they’re kind of navigating some of these challenges. There’s like laundry at the school, there’s like a food, like a room where you can just walk in and get free groceries. They have outfits and hygiene products. I mean it’s, some of these kids just need help.

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (16:22):

They just need lunch, and so what I love is just the holistic care that LeBron is and his team are applying to helping every single one of these students as a part of the I Promise School to just, he’s wanting to set them up for a success later on in their lives, and if they graduate from high school, they actually get free tuition at the University of Akron or at Kent State, and so the success rate, getting these bottom 25% students, the success rate, it’s remarkable what they’re doing, and so it’s not all that what’s happening on the court that is inspiring and motivating LeBron each and every day. He actually talks about the I Promise School’s being the best thing he’s ever done in his career, and so I just love how that mindset actually applies outside of his “Office,” right?

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (17:13):

Well, and one of the things you share in the book is a definition of integrity, a definition that maybe for most of us aren’t familiar with, so would you mind talking a little bit about that definition and sharing some information on it?

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (17:28):

Yeah. When most people hear the word, integrity, they’re usually thinking about somebody who has good morals, good values, but there is, like you said, another definition, and it’s one that I’ve really loved and have enjoyed learning about, internal consistency. I think for so many of us, we are struggling with integrity by way of the way that we are living is not consistent with the way that we want to live or that we aspire to live. We may want to be more like a LeBron, where we’re all about the assist, but the way that we are living today is we’re head down, so focused on our own success that we’re not even spending any moment thinking about anybody else at all, and so we don’t necessarily want to make it about us, but as we look at our actions, that’s kind of how we’re showing up, and so we are wrestling with that integrity, that internal consistency of who you are today and who you really want to be, and so the greatest thing that we can do is to start to live with integrity. What if you started to live out a definition of success that’s more connected with the kind of way that you truly want to live, the kind of legacy that you want to leave in your life?

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (18:54):

I have a podcast called Build A Winning Team, and the last question I ask every single guest is, “All right, finish a sentence for me. Success is …” What I’ve found is if you’re not intentional about what success is in your life, you subconsciously start to operate off of someone else’s definition, so no wonder we’re dealing with a lack of integrity, because we haven’t taken time to even get clear about what it is that we want and how this plays out practically. One of the things I do is I speak at events. I have a five-year-old and a two-and-a-half-year-old, and for my wife and I, me doing about one keynote a month is a good fit for how I want to be showing up right now in my life. I have some friends who are on the road 80 plus days a year.

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (19:49):

For them, they love that. They get energy from that. Their definition of success, how they want to show up is 80 days a year. If I try to operate and live according to their definition, I am so screwed. Like it is not going to work, and that doesn’t mean that their definition is wrong or that mine is right. It’s right in that each person defines success for themselves, and then lives in accordance to that definition.

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (20:16):

That is what is right for each of us, so stop being so pulled or compelled to live someone else’s story. Get clear about what success is for you and live into it. I think if you do that, you won’t struggle with that lack of integrity or that internal consistency that maybe you’re longing for.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (20:37):

Thank you. That’s great. Tim, what I’d love to do here is ask you the same four questions that we ask every guest before they go. The first question is, in reference to a miss, and have you had a miss or two in your career and something you learned from it?

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (20:52):

There was a season in my life when I wanted to be the next to John Mayer, and you should have seen me back then. I mean, I had amazing, long hair you would expect a true artist to have, and I really, that was the dream, but if I’m honest, as I think back to why I wanted it, I didn’t want to be the next John Mayer or write these songs to truly be helpful for people, I just wanted to be famous. I wanted people to know my name. I don’t know if I need to tell you this, but I failed in my attempt at trying to be John Mayer. You’ve never heard any of my songs, so a huge miss, but what I learned from that failed experience is what actually it looks like to have a successful life and career, and it doesn’t have to look like being the person that everyone’s talking about, and in fact, the further and further I got away from the spotlight in my own career, the more and more fulfilled I actually felt, and so sure, today, I have the CEO title, but being in The Secret Society is actually less about your position on the org chart or how much visibility you have in your role, and it’s more about the posture in which you show up.

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (22:14):

Are you going to be trapped in this Spotlight Mindset, thinking only of yourself, demanding attention and recognition, or are you going to live in alignment with what it looks like to live as a part of The Secret Society? If there’s a common denominator for what makes someone a part of The Secret Society, it’s this idea of helping others win, and so I’ve learned even in a role that I may have with a title like CEO, as long as I’m making it about others, helping others win, using all that I have, my connections, my content, my whatever, the team that I can rally around an idea, as long as I’m leveraging all that to help someone else improve in their life, I feel like that’s success. I’ve learned that, and it took me failing, I think to really get at the heart of what a fulfilling and impactful life and career can look like.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (23:15):

Let’s look at the other side of things and talk about a make or two. You’ve shared some throughout the interview so far, but is there another highlight or a make you’d like to share?

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (23:25):

When I was working with Donald Miller and StoryBrand, one of my favorite moments was after Don released one of his books called Scary Close. About 10 days after a book comes out is when you find out if it’s hit the various bestsellers lists, and so Don was in the office the day that we got the phone call from his publisher, and this was the phone call we’d find out. So Don gets off the phone, raises his hands in there, and he’s smiling and he says, “We hit number five on The New York Times,” which is the highest that any of his books had ever been on The New York Times, and so as you would imagine, we high-five, we hug. I mean, everyone’s celebrating, but then something really beautiful happens. Just a couple minutes after that, we all went back to our offices and went back to work. Sometimes when I talk to people about this moment, they look at me with almost like, “What’s wrong with you?”

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (24:24):

“Do you not know how to celebrate wins? You just hit The New York Times Bestsellers list, and two minutes later, you’re in your office working again?” I look at that and talk about that as one of my favorite memories because what we had done is we had built a culture where people were content and passionate about doing the work whether or not we ever got the accolade. We had built a culture where people had fallen in love with the process, not the result. I think any good business leader, they don’t obsess about the revenue, they don’t obsess about how many people they have on their team, how many franchises they have, they obsess in doing the work, serving customers, adding value to people’s lives, helping others win, and it’s in those moments then, that they feel successful whether or not they ever get that Forbes 30, under 30 list or 40, whatever, right?

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (25:24):

It’s like more interested in just showing up and doing the best work that they can, and believing that the rest is going to take care of itself.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (25:32):

Oh, that’s a great story. Thank you for sharing. Let’s talk about a multiplier. We probably get our greatest variety of responses for that. As you’ve grown in your career professionally or even personal development, has there been a multiplier you’ve used that you wouldn’t mind sharing?

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (25:50):

There’s an idea I would love to have spread across organizations to really, I think multiply people’s success. It’s really, this idea that I learned from Tim Cook, who I worked at Apple for a few years, and there was a period where he was CEO and I was working there. At the release of the Apple Watch, which is a pretty big deal for both Tim Cook and Apple because this is the first product that they had released since Steve Jobs’ passing, so he’s being interviewed on national television, and David Muir asked Tim, he says, “Is this the moment for you, the moment of your career at Apple?” When I think about where Tim Cook was at in his life when he is asked that question, it makes his response so much more powerful because here, Tim Cook was for the past several decades sitting in the shadow of Steve Jobs. Now, here he is, just being teed up to take some of the credit, really let people know he’s the one for the job, but what I love is his response goes in the exact opposite direction from how most people would’ve responded.

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (26:59):

“So is this the moment for you, the moment of your career at Apple?” He says, “Well, it’s a moment for Apple. I don’t really think about myself that much,” and it reminds me, his response reminds me of this plaque that sat on Ronald Reagan’s desk when he was President, and it said, “There is no limit to what a man can do or where he can go if he doesn’t mind who gets the credit.” So to answer your question, “What’s the multiplier? What’s the thing I think that we can do to scale our success?,” it’s be willing to do the work and not mind if you get the credit.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (27:37):

That’s really, really fantastic. Tim, the final question we ask every guest before they go on our show is, what does success mean to you?

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (27:50):

Well, if I really were to boil it down, it really is success to me is helping people win, and if there’s a North Star, for me, as I was writing this book, and a North star that guides me today, it’s this quote by Albert Schweitzer. He says, “I don’t know what your destiny will be. Some of you will perhaps occupy remarkable positions. Perhaps some of you will become famous by your pens or as artists, but I know one thing. The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who have sought and found how to serve.”

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (28:27):

So how do we define success? I think it’s serving others, helping other people win, and I feel like if you do that, success is at your fingertips.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (28:37):

Well, as we bring this to a close, Tim, is there anything you were hoping to share or get across that you haven’t had a chance to yet?

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (28:44):

You’ve asked great questions. I really feel like anything that I would say is just continuing to emphasize that if we don’t define success for ourselves, get clear about that, I think we are going to be living according to other people’s definitions. I just don’t feel like success is fame, money, and power. I actually think it’s learning to live in the way of The Secret Society of Success, and it’s really about others. I think if we focus more of our attention on that, I think we’re going to be on a much better path.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (29:17):

Yeah. Well, we are in definite alignment in that thought process. What’s the best way for someone to get in touch with you, get a copy of your book, and learn a little bit more about what you’re doing?

Tim Schurrer, David Novak Leadership (29:29):

I had a fun experience where I narrated the audiobook, so if people are on Audible, have a credit that they want to use, you can get the book there. It’s also available on Amazon, or if you want to connect with me on social and all the places, all of that is at

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (29:48):

Tim, thank you so much for just a wonderful interview and sharing with us your insights on success. Let’s go ahead and jump into today’s three key takeaways. So takeaway number one is when Tim talked about the Spotlight Mindset that he shares in his book. He said, when we think about success and you have the Spotlight Mindset, you think about climbing the corporate ladder, having the most profitable franchise or company. It’s an unhealthy desire for attention and recognition.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (30:22):

I loved how he described that. When you have the Spotlight Mindset, success is an unhealthy desire for tension and recognition. He said, think about the world that you’re living in, and are you always looking at people next to you and comparing? Are you perpetually unhappy. Take away Number two is what he says success is not.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (30:45):

As he’s talking about the definition of success, I really liked this, he said, “Success is not fame, money, and power,” and sometimes having the opposite of a definition is helpful and better understanding. Takeaway number three is when he gave his definition of success, which is helping people win and to be all about the assist. I thought that was a great example, and he shared how LeBron James in 2020, when LeBron James won the NBA Championship, he was not the scoring leader, rather, he was the assist leader in the NBA. I thought that was a great tie in and connection to this, so maybe something for you to think about is, “How are you helping people win?,” and maybe it’s thinking, “How are you assisting others? How are you passing the ball to them to set them up to be the scoring leader?”

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (31:42):

 Now, it’s time for today’s win-win. Today’s win-win is when Tim shared with us about success and what success means to him, and he shared this a couple times throughout the interview, and he said, “If we don’t define success for ourselves, someone else will,” so I’d ask, “Have you defined your own version of success that does not involve hitting performance metrics in your business at work, hitting some lofty goal? What is that assist? How are you helping others win?” That will be the true measure, because it won’t be what he said in describing it’s not going to be fame, money, and power, it’s going to be helping someone else along the way, and so I thought that’s a great way to close.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (32:35):

That’s why the title of the show is talking about redefining success, and maybe you’re already there. Maybe you’ve already figured this out, but if you haven’t, I would give pause, especially as we’re going into another new year here to be thinking about this. That’s the episode today, folks. Please make sure you subscribe to the podcast and give us a review, and remember, if you or anyone you know might be ready to franchise their business or take their franchise company to the next level, please connect with us at Thanks for tuning in, and we look forward to having you back next week.

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