Is Growth Hacking Too Good to Be True—Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert

I’m sure over the last several years you’ve heard about growth hacks over the last few years, I know that I have. But, I always thought it sounded too good to be true. So I decided to interview and expert to provide some context and understanding. 

In today’s episode, we interview Nader Sabry, who shares with us about what growth hacking has turned into growth science. 


The difference between growth science and not is the distance between an idea and action.


Nader has been described by his peers as “the guy you don’t want your competition to hire” for his innovative growth strategies that have propelled businesses to unprecedented success.  

Nader has helped hundreds of CEOs, global leaders, and founders unlock unseen growth opportunities with growth hacking SECRETS used by only 1% of companies. Several Fortune 500s use his methods and strategies, including Microsoft, Google, and NASA.


This episode is powered by Big Sky Franchise Team. If you are ready to talk about franchising your business you can schedule your free, no-obligation, franchise consultation online at: or by calling Big Sky Franchise Team at: 855-824-4759.

If you are interested in being a guest on our podcast, please complete this request form or email and a team member will be in touch.


Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (00:01):

Welcome to the Multiply Your Success Podcast, where each week we help growth-minded entrepreneurs and franchise leaders take the next step in their expansion journey. I’m your host, Tom DuFore, CEO of Big Sky Franchise Team. I don’t know about you, but over the last several years I’ve heard this phrase and content about growth hacks. And for me, I’ve always wondered, is this real?

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (00:24):

Is there any substance behind this? Is this just some kind of new marketing message that goes on? I brought on our guest today, Nader Sabry, who is an expert on growth hacking and really what he calls growth science. Now, Nader has been described by his peers as the guy you don’t want your competition to hire for his innovative growth strategies that have propelled businesses to unprecedented success.

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (00:50):

Nader’s helped hundreds of CEOs, business leaders, founders unlock growth opportunities with growing hacking secrets used by only 1% of companies. Several Fortune 500s use his methods and strategies, including Microsoft, Google, and NASA. It’s a really interesting interview. I think you’re going to enjoy it. So let’s go ahead and jump right into it.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (01:11):

So my name is Nader Sabry. I’m the bestselling author of Ready, Set, Growth hack, and I specialize in an area which is known as the growth sciences. We’ll dig a little bit into that and help your audience understand a little bit more how they can use some of these sciences to exponentially grow their businesses as well.

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (01:28):

Fantastic intro and lead in. And I understand you really helped coin this topic of growth science and really instrumental in creating it. So let’s start with just some basic fundamental things. What is growth science?

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (01:42):

Sure. So growth science originates from a concept that is more well-known as growth hacking, and that was coined in roughly 2010 or so by Sean Ellis. And as it was coined, it was just hacking. It was little, small strategies that were able to move you forward exponentially. But what happened with time is that those weren’t working as effectively just because they were a bit more short-sighted.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (02:05):

I don’t know if that’s the fairest way to put it. But what happened is the whole industry started to evolve and it then started to shift towards a science. And as it shifted towards a science, it became more rigorous and tested and objectively measured form of a practice rather than it just being individual tips and tricks on how to grow an organization.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (02:25):

And so I helped spearhead that by writing a book called Ready, Set, Growth hack that Fortune 500s and startup companies and unicorns use as basically a blueprint to help them understand how does exponential growth work and how do they actually go about it systematically.

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (02:39):

From a high level, can you talk through just some basic principles about how this works and what that looks like?

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (02:46):

So the starting point for me actually is a very personal story. And as I put this book together and trained people around the world, I started like most entrepreneurs, of course, knowing nothing. I don’t know how to start a business. So I did what everyone else would do. I started reading books and taking courses and listening to different audio, media. Of course, podcasts weren’t exactly at the time when I first started out, but they [inaudible 00:03:08].

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (03:09):

What was interesting, and it still exists still today, is everyone has a formula, which they’ll tell you, “This is the way to do something. And if you follow this formula, you’ll get the following success and model behind this and you’re ready to go.” And so you take this off the shelf and you start to do it, and then you obviously don’t get the results that you’ve been promised or been told or the things in the way that they look like and the way that they’re communicated. And so what happens is you just keep skipping, moving forward.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (03:33):

I’ll go read this and read that. And it’s an amazing exercise, but at the end what happens is you get very minimal sort of results. It took me a while to figure this out, but eventually I figured out, well, maybe their formula works really well for them or their specific circumstances, but may not necessarily work for me. And that’s when I realized that I had to start developing my own formula. And that’s one of the first things I teach in my first book, which is already said, Growth Hack, which is my goal is to help you find your growth formula.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (04:01):

So this isn’t about how your competitors in your industry are doing it. That’s usually the very first points that comes in the very first conversation with a client. Well, we’re benchmarking our competitors. And we see on this metric we’re not doing very well, so we want to hack that KPI. And I said, okay, hang on, hang on, hang on. That’s exactly part of the problem why you’re not getting results. Let’s step back and understand the growth sciences and how that works.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (04:21):

So the essence of it is when I started to define this in the very early stages, it was a bit controversial because when people would type in let’s say just growth hacking and you can do that now, you’re going to get this wide range of very technical definitions and they’re not really strategic in the sense of where it actually goes to. And so I changed that by changing the definition to basically putting in less effort to achieve much wider strategic results. So disproportionate results is basically what I’m looking for as a very simplistic definition.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (04:50):

The reason being is that the growth sciences encompasses a whole range of different things. So as growth hacking was building up, and then there are reasons behind this, which I talk about in my training, which is growth marketing, and it’s a very marketing oriented function, but the reality is that the growth sciences and if you want to grow an organization exponentially, you cannot just look at marketing or sales. So it’s equivalent to like, I’m going to go to the gym and I’m going to work on my biceps every single day.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (05:14):

And I do it for 90 days. And then the 90 days, I got amazing biceps, but the remaining of my body suffers because one part is overdeveloped and the remaining is not being able to handle those overdeveloped muscles. So an organization is exactly the same way. In order to grow that organization, you need to be able to work all the muscles at the organization at the same time. So you may be focused on one or a few areas, but there are what I call cross-functional capabilities. I’m trying to grow an organization, most people would just focus on sales and marketing.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (05:42):

That’s only part of the equation. I need to be able to growth hack the remaining of the other functions so that they all work together and sustain over time. So in the book, basically I teach there are three phases, which is you start with the growth problem, then you do the growth experiments, and then you do growth extensions. And that’s broken down into a roadmap that helps you understand how to do that. And so the very, very starting point is the growth problem itself.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (06:04):

It sounds so obvious, but it’s probably where a big part of the failure happens because most organizations can’t define what the growth problem is very effectively. And so I use a diagnostic tool with 320 points. When I walk into an organization, we figure that out. And we come back, we look at it. Holy cow, okay, that’s pretty pinpointed to what the problem is. Because at the end, if we’re solving the wrong problem, we’re wasting time and effort. Sometimes it takes a little bit of hit-and-miss until we get it right.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (06:32):

But once we’ve got it, we’re able to focus on the right area and where to grow. And then we focus into the experimentation part. The experimentation part is where we systematically work as fast and simple and as cheap as possible to identify where to actually aim. And so this was something that I learned very long time ago, and I call it boardroom ego. And boardroom ego is… I get hired by companies to come and solve their growth problem. I come to present.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (06:58):

First day at the board and everybody seems to have the answer, but yet they have a problem. So imagine there’s a problem, but everyone has the answer. You’re sitting there like, okay, this doesn’t really make sense. Why would you hire me? Why do you need my help? So what happened was I discovered that there’s a barrier that needs to be broken there. And in order to grow, what I would do is… You got all these very smart, powerful people sitting at a table.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (07:20):

I tell them, I’m like, guys, okay, we need to agree to one simple statement to move forward because it plays a really important role in shaping our mindset to heading towards growth. And once you get everybody to that level and the statement is, we all agree to I don’t know. And once everybody agrees to that statement, the only thing really left is actually experimentation. Because if you and I don’t really know and we agree to the idea that we don’t really know, we have to discover the way forward.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (07:44):

And that creates a whole different mindset. It sounds really simple, but in larger organizations, it plays a really vital role in being able to navigate problems, especially at a strategic level in a very different way. 90 plus percent of the growth hacks that we’ve developed through this science I would say come from the unknown. And that’s the reason behind it. So if I was doing the same things in the same way just better, cheaper, or faster than you, then I’m not really actually gaining exponential growth.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (08:10):

I’m just growing incrementally. And you can do that, that could be part of your strategy, but that has a limitation in the sense of not just growth, but in the sense of how long it would last. When it comes to exponential growth, when we find areas where we can do things where nobody else has done those kinds of things, we have tons of very simplistic examples. So part of my second book, which is called Growth Thinking, it’s a methodology. It’s actually used in some of the large business schools like Harvard.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (08:34):

So I’ve done some articles there with the Harvard Business Review and some of the other major… It’s all over place. Because it’s a tool that helps take in a visual way how to take the growth sciences and then convert it into a way that we actually develop a growth strategy and then action it. So I challenged myself in developing this methodology, and I developed something called the 10-Day Growth Hacking Challenge.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (08:55):

And it’s a million dollar challenge broken down into $10,000 challenges. And you can watch it on my YouTube channel. So if you go there, there’s a ton of very valuable free education. To a point I guarantee you, you reach your third video, you’re kind of like, where’s the trick? When am I going to get charged for this? I get that all the time. Because what happens is when you watch these, you start to see… We did this intentionally.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (09:15):

We look for organizations or small businesses especially that are from all walks of life, different complete demographic, completely different locations around the world, different stages in the business cycle, people in all kinds of different industries, everything from bikinis all the way to ice therapy, to FinTech companies, to healthcare. And we have just a wide variety. And the way that you learn from this is not saying, “Oh, I’m in the healthcare industry. I just want to watch the guys in healthcare,” it doesn’t work like that.

The way it works is you want to see the mechanics of how we actually implement this, and there’s a consistent way. Each contender has five videos per season, and you can actually watch the progression, how we go through this. And so you’ll see really simple ways of how we look at this, but you’ll see the whole science behind it.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (10:01):

So it looks very simple up front, but when you see the background to how we actually got to that conclusion and how we actually experiment and how we do with failure quickly as possible, then you would be able to take some of those things and be able to implement it into your own type of business.

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (10:17):

I’d love for you to talk about what you’ve seen or what you found with the differences between organizations and companies that are implementing some of these things that you’re teaching and talking about and helping them learn how to implement versus those that are not.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (10:34):

The biggest takeaway for me has been, one, element of mindset, that is the difference in how people develop when they work with me versus those who don’t, and that’s the distance between an idea and action. And it sounds really simple. I’m telling you, it sounds really simple, but it’s highly complex. So when I work with the founder or the principal owner or the CEO of an organization, the faster that he or she can get their team around this idea of action and idea and the distance coming much closer together, the success rate goes through the roof.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (11:07):

And that’s purely because there’s a whole bunch of elements to this. So when we go through things and we think, oh, okay, if I pursue this, there’s got to be the best way to do things. And once you get rid of that and you remove the emotion from that, your mindset completely changes, and you’re able to pursue some of these things at a completely different level. So there are, of course, many more things to this, but I would say that’s the number one thing that I see working with different founders and CEOs of organization.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (11:31):

I can see the leap, the personal leap that they have once they jump through that mindset. They’re just on top of that. The way that they take risk changes the way that they navigate dealing with failure, the way that they’re able to identify opportunities. And I can tell you the conversations by the time we crack that point, that distance comes much closer, the ability to see opportunity in ways that they’ve never seen it before completely transforms, completely, completely transforms.

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (12:00):

You mentioned working with small businesses. Most of our clients are what I refer to as oftentimes a high growth small business that’s really growing quickly. We help companies franchise their business at my company. And so we’re oftentimes dealing with franchisors that are in this emerging franchise group where they’re selling their first 10, their first 30, 40, 50 franchises in that section.

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (12:23):

And so what I’m wondering is how you’ve seen this implemented, maybe a first step or two that someone would say, “Well, I love your ideas. This is interesting, but what’s a first step to get going down this process,” how do they do that?

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (12:39):

Sure. So one of the barriers to crossover, especially when it comes to franchising… So let me bring it down into that area. So there’s a concept that’s called Growth on Cocaine. I’ve got two videos on it. It’s very popular, okay? It’s a brain chemistry issue. And it’s a bit controversial as a terminology, so don’t worry, I’m not promoting anything that shouldn’t be promoted by saying this. But what happens is it’s equivalent to experience something for the first time, and then you pursue that same experience with the same amount of energy the first time you had experienced it.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (13:08):

But the first time you… Sorry, the second time you go for it, you need to put in more energy and effort for a marginally better experience than what you had the first time. And so you continuously do that. And that’s the same thing with growth. It’s actually the same exact brain chemistry. So you get this first hit. You get this growth. You’re just nailing it. And then you’re like, “Yes, I’ve got it. We’re growing.” And then it’s actually one of the most dangerous things that can ever happen to your business.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (13:33):

And when I work with teams and someone from sales and marketing comes in and says, “We see this huge thing,” and I looked at them and I said, “Oh boy, I want to celebrate, but we got a much bigger strategic problem here.” And they’re like, “What’s that?” And I say, “Well, what you’re looking for is a rising horizon.” And a rising horizon is where your ability to grow over a period of time sustainably where you’re perpetuating the growth, where you’re putting in less effort and more growth is coming out of it.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (13:59):

It’ll never happen like a spike. It feels like it. Especially companies that are funded by very aggressive venture capitalists, you are more likely to fall into this kind of trap because they’re looking for that hockey stick. Again, it’s the same brain chemistry. And that is very dangerous. It can be very detrimental to your business. I’ve been in this scenario so many times. It feels intoxicating, which is exactly what it is, and you want to keep hitting it and you eventually will not be able to sustain it.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (14:27):

So you need to look at it in different ways. So that’s what growth sciences will help you do is understand how to compound those experiments. Once you enter to expanding them and scaling them, how do you compound them so that they’re consistently working harder than you are and then sustaining over a long period of time. So in franchising, that’s very, very crucial. We’ve worked with a few franchises in the past and we’ve seen this multiplier effect. And at the center of franchises, scalability by nature, one of the problems with franchises though.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (14:59):

There’s a difference between a scalable business and a… Let me go back. The nature of some businesses are not scalable. So if I’m a lawyer or more labor or craftsmanship is involved in what I do, so I’m a lawyer, I’m an accountant, a consultant, a PR guy, whatever it might be, the lowest common denominator is actually my skill. And so what I need to scale is the skill. So I can become not a scalable business, but a sizable business. So I can still become a billion-dollar business, but it wouldn’t be because I’m scalable, it’s because I’m sizable.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (15:29):

It’s two different things. And a lot of companies have a lot of problems with that. So if you’re franchising that has a labor-intensive part of it and there’s a skill, a unique skill that’s required, you have to look at it from a sizable rather than a scalable business. It doesn’t mean you wouldn’t use tools and methods to scale. You’d just be dealing with it a lot differently because you would have to be able to deal with the sizability part, which is your craftsmanship and your know-how as an individual or individuals even. Yes.

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (15:57):

I’d love for you to talk about why you think growth hacking will be the number one super skill to have in the future.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (16:03):

Well, this is a very interesting story. So I learned this by accident. So there was a growth hacker in the UK contacted me roughly I think 2021. I do several different industry reports, and one of them was an estimate of how many growth hackers actually existed. And so at that period, it was about 5,000 growth hackers. There’s not very many, and there’s a very specific reason.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (16:23):

There’s a 16 point criteria that we use. So it’s kind of like if someone says, I’m a lawyer, but they’re not really a lawyer or whatever professions and someone can just claim it because there isn’t really a certification body that can do it. Because you can’t really go to Harvard and say, “I’m going to become a growth hacker.” Not yet. We may be there soon, but it’s not quite there yet.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (16:41):

Nonetheless, so his client is one of the world’s largest recruitment firms. They were looking a bit deeper into the skill set, and so they wanted to have a consultation with me. They asked me how this estimate work, and then what would it look like a year and a half later, which is the time we had the conversation. I said it would be around double, but it’s still not very many because we’re still talking about nine to 11, 12,000 people.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (17:02):

It’s not a lot of people. And so they turned around and they said, “Okay, we want to show you something. We want to pick your brain on something.” And so they’ve got this massive algorithm where they have a model and they scale out all the skills required for certain emerging industries and grants the different talent that’s available. They had determined that by 2030, a million growth hackers would be needed and become the number one super skill of the future.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (17:24):

And the reason behind that was, and that’s what I saw in my own practice as well, was that let’s say you’ve got strategy, technology, and innovation. And these are all important components. But at the end, if they don’t grow your organization, the technology, innovation, and strategy is useless. So it all has to lead to growth. If it doesn’t lead to growth, then it’s a pointless exercise.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (17:43):

It’s pointless to spend even time and money on it. So unless it leads to growth, it won’t really add up. And so that’s why it’s become the super skill of the future because it’s a science and the demand on it is very high. I mean, at least a year ago when we did this assessment, there’s roughly 120% premium paid for these types of skill sets in the marketplace. And the demand continues to outpace the supply, and it’s going to look like that for at least the next decade.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (18:08):

So it’s a field that I would highly recommend that people are very keen and interested to learn and be in. You’d be in a very interesting space, I’ll put it like that.

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (18:17):

For someone who’s tuning in, maybe they’re interested in becoming a growth hacker, but the more likely scenario is that someone’s saying, “Well, this sounds great. How do I find someone to add to my team? Are there some recruiting strategies or techniques to help identify someone who actually is what they claim to be?”

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (18:35):

So I wrote a whole book about that, which is Hire Me If You Can, because I faced the exact same problems. I would work with a client, and by the time I’m done, they’re like, okay, we need another you. We need a copy of you or a way to continue. And of course, I help them build the systems and the strategy to do that. But the problem is you still need somebody there.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (18:53):

And I tell them, even us inside the industry, we have trouble hiring those kinds of people. So when we have trouble hiring those kinds of people, we step back and we tell them, listen, we’ll use our network. And as I use my network, because I’ve got the Growth Ninja School and all that, I found myself being a recruiter, but a highly paid recruiter, by the way. It’s like they pay me fees for something else, but I’d be recruiting for them.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (19:13):

And so what happened was that it’s just like, it’s not that easy to do, but it’s not impossible. So in the Hire Me If You Can, I actually literally outlined 600 plus ways that we’ve used for us and our clients how to identify growth hackers, where to find them, how to attract them.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (19:28):

When you’re competing against organizations that have top-notch growth hackers, how do you hire other growth hackers to compete with them, because you’re going to need equal, not equal, even better growth hackers than what they have. There’s some pretty spicy strategies in there. Let me put it like that, how we’ve done it and how we’ve helped clients to do it.

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (19:50):

Excellent. Well, Nader, this is a great time in the show where we make a transition and we ask every guest the same four questions before they go. And the first question we ask is, have you had a miss or two on your journey and something you learned from it.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (20:03):

I had a lot of misses. In fact, I’ve had more misses than anything else. They’re probably the number one contributor to me moving forward in anything. So my attitude towards it has been I look forward to failure. Let it happen. Because if I stumble three, four times, on the fifth time, I’m more likely to hit something that’s way more successful than if I got the first time. And early in my career, I was actually very lucky, I was actually able to take the second company I ever built public, which was one of the world’s first internet service providers, Canada Online.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (20:31):

We’ve done so well going to IP, and we got bought out during that time. And that can be a very, again, very intoxicating experience. Because when you have an early success like that, your mind completely, “Oh man, I can run the world here. The universe is wrapped around my finger.” It is human nature, I’m telling you. That can be the worst thing that can happen to you, and you only realize that with time.

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (20:54):

Any other makes or wins or highlights that you’d like to share?

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (20:57):

Highlights, oh wow, I have so many, but I would say the most exciting highlight in my career has been working with NASA, an organization I would’ve never dreamed in a million years would ever show an interest in anything that I do. And that was a mind bender opening to me, working with a group of people who I found a new home with because it was a mindset that is very difficult to find, and that is essentially when you’re breaking the boundaries of innovation and there’s literally nothing in front of you except you believing in an idea or believing that it’s possible.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (21:30):

Being in an environment like that and working with people who believe in that and work with you to do things like that is an incredible experience and probably the most enriching experience I’ve had until now. And I hope there are many other better ones to come. They’re a difficult one to top off, I’ll tell you that.

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (21:47):

Excellent. Well, let’s talk about a multiplier you’ve used to grow yourself, your business, personally, professionally.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (21:54):

I’ll give you a story very early on, so very, very early on when I learned about how to scale and multiply and I was stumbling on it rather than it was actually into a science that I was able to demonstrate in a book. When we were growing our internet service provider in the early days in the ’90s and we were going public, we were going to go across the country. And so we had to build POPs, a point of presence, across the country. And these points of presence at that time were very expensive.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (22:18):

I remember they were around… Starting point was about $350,000, which in retrospect, it doesn’t sound like a lot of money. But when you’ve got to multiply that across 20 cities and then you’ve got to run them, it gets very hefty, and hence why we were raising money. And then all of a sudden, I had met somebody, and this is where the… You remember I was talking about the distance between idea and execution comes into play and how you see opportunities.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (22:41):

So at that time, there was an individual I met. He was an engineer who founded a company that deals with what’s a vPOP, a virtual point of presence. And this is in the very early stage. So he had developed an algorithm, which was essentially the switchboard for the internet in many ways, his ability to speed up internet access and how to manage data in a data center. This is just in the really early days. And so he already had a presence in all these data centers in places I needed to be, and there was just a bit of infrastructure needed.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (23:09):

So rather than spending 350,000, I was able to actually gain a presence for about $1,200 per city. And it’s probably one of the biggest multipliers and the growth hack I’ve ever done because when I took that to my board while going public, and I was like, well, for the same amount of money, we can still do the same thing, but we can have way more money to do way other things like penetrating markets where we can get more customers rather than it being stuck in infrastructure and work like that.

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (23:37):

Incredible. Incredible. Well, the final question we ask every guest is what does success mean to you?

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (23:44):

For me, it’s helping people realize their potential. I have a super skill where I’m able to identify the talent in somebody before they can see it themselves and help them extract it from them. And I love doing that, when I’m able to work with someone to crack that barrier.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (23:59):

And once I’m able to do that, I think that’s a huge success for me because my success comes through the success of my clients and the things I do for others actually, not necessarily for me, which is cool in one way, but kind of sucks as well sometimes. Because you’re invested in your clients, you’re kind of wondering, what am I doing for myself other than obviously getting paid well for it. That’s how it is, right?

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (24:23):

And before we go here, is there anything you were hoping to share or get across that you haven’t had a chance to yet?

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (24:29):

What I mentioned earlier about the 10-Day Growth Hacking Challenge, it’s an amazing tool. On my YouTube channel, so you go to YouTube and just type in my full name, Nader Sabry, Sabry with a Y at the end, and you’ll get a ton of information in my channel. So this 10-Day Growth Hacking Challenge, the tutorials across the board about what is growth hacking, how does growth hacking work, where do you find a growth hacker, top tools.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (24:49):

One of the top questions is like, what are the tools? We got something called the 20-minute tool test, and I teach people how to do the 20-minute tool test, how you can figure out what is actually the right tool. Because it isn’t necessarily what people tell you it is, it’s what works for you and how do you figure that out. So there’s a lot of rich content in there that’s free.

Nader Sabry, Growth Science Expert (25:06):

I always just tell people it’s there, use it, tap into it. You can write to me by reaching out to my website. Again, just my full name, Catch me on LinkedIn. Again, just type in my full name, you’ll find me. And if you have a question, you can just drop me a message, a DM, and we can go from there.

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (25:25):

Nader, thank you so much for a fantastic interview, and let’s go ahead and jump into today’s three key takeaways. So takeaway number one is when he was describing growth hacks and these systems and processes that people will use, what he described is when people are trying to figure out a system to use, it’s about figuring out and finding the one that works for you.

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (25:46):

Very often, as he describes, that the person who’s teaching you this growth hacker formula, it’s a system they figured out to work for themselves and now they’re sharing it with others. So I thought that was a great takeaway, and his book that he mentioned helps you find the formula that works for you. Takeaway number two is growth science equals disproportionate results.

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (26:10):

And I thought that was interesting. So growth sciences brings together cross-functional areas, and you start with the growth problem, then growth experiments, and then growth extensions. So growth problem, growth experiments, and growth extensions. Takeaway number three is when he described the difference between a scalable business versus a sizable business.

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (26:31):

And he said, if your business requires a lot of specialized skills or education, well, it may not be scalable, but it is sizable. And I find that to be very interesting because that’s part of the reason why we help companies, franchise, or business. In many cases, it may not be scalable without franchising. Franchising actually allows you to create a scalable business and a sizeable business.

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (26:58):

And now it’s time for today’s win-win. So today’s win-win is when he talked about the differences between what growth science is and is not, and he said growth science helps you achieve or condense that distance between an idea and action. And so it’s the idea that the faster that someone can move between an idea to action is critical. So growth science helps you remove the emotion from the decision, make the mindset jump, and then the ability to see it or to go after it.

Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (27:37):

So I thought that was a great win-win. Oftentimes we’re looking at this and as leaders of our organization, sometimes we’re getting in our own way. I think that’s just so true in many instances. And so that’s the episode today, folks. Please make sure you subscribe to the podcast and give us a review. And remember, if you or anyone you know might be ready to franchise their business or take their franchise company to the next level, please connect with us at Thanks for tuning in, and we look forward to having you back next week.

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