Do you know the difference between your company brand and your personal brand? And do you know how to develop and build your personal brand? Or even why your personal brand matters? If you’ve ever thought about this, or maybe you’re just curious to learn more this is the episode for you!
Our guest today is Jen Dalton and she is a personal branding expert. She has trained executives and leaders across the world including leaders at Microsoft, IBM, and even the White House! She shares her expertise in our interview about Personal Branding.
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LINKS FROM THE EPISODE:
- Learn more about Jen and her company BrandMirror: https://www.brandmirror.com/
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ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Jen Dalton is the founder of BrandMirror, where she helps CEOs, executives, and entrepreneurs refine their personal brands that break through the noise and actually bring in massive amounts of revenue, and 10x their revenue. Jen has been featured on The Washington Post, Forbes, and Inc. and has spoken at the White House, as well as Microsoft, IBM, and other Fortune 500 companies! Jen is also a Senior Industry Fellow at the Georgetown University Women’s Leadership Institute, and spoke to the US Navy Public Relations leaders, receiving a challenge coin on storytelling.
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This episode is powered by Big Sky Franchise Team. If you are ready to talk about franchising your business you can schedule your free, no-obligation, franchise consultation online at: https://bigskyfranchiseteam.com/ or by calling Big Sky Franchise Team at: 855-824-4759.
Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (00:00):
Welcome to the Multiply Your Success podcast, where each week we help growth minded entrepreneurs and franchise leaders take the next step in their expansion journey. I’m your host, Tom DuFore, CEO of Big Sky Franchise Team. And as we open today, I’m wondering if you know the difference between your company brand and your personal brand. I know that’s something that oftentimes business leaders and especially entrepreneurs have mixed together. And do you know how to develop and build your personal brand or even why your personal brand matters? And if you’ve ever thought about this, or maybe you’re just curious to learn a little bit more, this is the episode for you. Our guest today is Jen Dalton and she is a personal branding expert. She’s trained executives and leaders all over the world, including companies like Microsoft, IBM, and even at the White House. She shares her expertise in her interview about personal branding. So let’s go ahead and jump right into it.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (00:58):
Thanks Tom, for having me on the show. My name is Jen Dalton, and my company is BrandMirror. So about 10 years ago, I decided to leave the corporate branding space and launch my own business, really focusing on personal branding for entrepreneurs and CEOs.
Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (01:16):
Great. And that’s one of the primary reasons why we wanted to have you on the show is to actually talk about personal branding. And for me, it’s something that I know as an owner and a leader of a company, I’ve struggled with over the years and I’ve seen other clients struggle through. So I’d love for you just to talk about, from a high level, kind of what is a personal brand? What is that, what does that mean?
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (01:43):
Absolutely. I think what most people think about a personal brand, if they’re not cynical, is that it’s your reputation. I think of it as the promises you’re making to whoever you’re interacting with, whether it’s family, clients, employees. What should they expect from you and how, how are you showing up? Some people might think personal branding is not authentic, a little bit icky, or feels like you’re marketing yourself as a product. And, and that would be the cynical person. I am not in that avenue. I really believe personal brands should be authentic, genuine, intentional. And that when you do that, you can connect in a really powerful way with all of your stakeholders and the people you work with.
Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (02:32):
Yeah. And you mentioned here this idea of the personal brand and one thing that I’m thinking about, so if I’m listening in and I’m just, as I am listening to you talk here, I’m wondering, okay, well, let’s say I work at a company, so maybe I’m the leader, but how am I separating myself from the company? Aren’t a lot of the things that I’m doing tied to together? Like, the company is me or I am the company. How do you address that kind of a situation?
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (03:06):
I definitely think one of the things that I find with CEOs or even solopreneurs or anybody in between, there’s challenges when you think about how am I representing the company, whether it’s out at networking events, how am I leveraging my personal brand and reputation to grow revenue? Are you out speaking? Are you part of the recruiting pipeline, right? 40% of millennials say that the visibility of the CEO and their purpose and mission will shape whether they want to work at a company or not.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (03:44):
So every CEO tends to show up where they feel comfortable and they could think, hey, I’m doing my town halls, I’m visible, internally, my people see me, it’s great. And that is great. However, there are a lot of different a is like your partners, your vendors, your clients, of course, your prospects, the industry, the medium, and going and looking at each of those audiences to make sure you’re not missing anything is really huge because it’s important to be consistent and to be seen. The last thing you want to do is realize five years down the road that, oh, wow, my head was kind of stuck in the sand. I thought I was visible, but the visibility I had actually negatively impacted the business versus helping it.
Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (04:38):
Hmm. So, well, this kind of leads me into my next question as a perfect segue here, which is what do CEOs or business leaders get wrong about branding themselves and their organizations? What are some kind of common things that you see?
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (04:54):
I think there are a few reasons why people may not invest time in the personal brand front. One is just that, time. I’m too busy, right? I don’t have time to write a blog, I’m the CEO. I don’t have time to craft X, Y, or Z. And that could absolutely be true, in which case I always recommend, if you have someone on your team, if you have a new hire, it could be part of your onboarding program, have people interview you and write the blog, right? Have people videotape you or record you and create content. So I think CEOs sometimes think they have to be the ones doing it. You don’t have to be. That’s where delegation can be really powerful.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (05:40):
I think the second piece is people believe that personal branding is personal bragging and they don’t want to be detracting from the company. They don’t want to look like they’re out there, sort of beating their chest. And that’s true. We don’t want to have you do that. But if you’re not visible, then people create their own story around the business or the company. And for a leader who walks the talk, it’s very important to be out, even if it’s volunteering with your team, be visible in the community. It’s important to talk about the values that matter, the culture that matters. So there are strategic initiatives that a company has every year and a CEO’s personal brand and the personal brand of their sales team, their other executives, anyone that’s client facing those all play a role in every client or prospect touchpoint, which could either, again, keep someone as part of your business or help them leave.
Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (06:46):
Yeah. I love that saying that personal branding is not personal bragging. I love that saying that you have there. And it’s a great point that you bring up, that if the CEO or the leader of the organization isn’t telling the story, well then someone’s going to create the story. The customer, the supplier, heaven forbid, a competitor.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (07:12):
Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (07:14):
Well, you brought up something that I’d like to talk a little bit more about. So as organizations grow, and I work with a lot of franchise companies in general, so it’s kind of these different little mini owners at different locations or different territories across the country. And then you certainly have the CEO or leader of the whole enterprise. So in these scenarios where you have different leaders at different capacities spread out across, how do you recommend working with different personal brands? So we’ve kind of addressed kind of the senior leader, but what happens, you’ve got a CEO and a CFO, and in franchising, you have local franchise owners. How do you recommend something like that work?
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (08:00):
Such a great question. And I think for leaders in the company, if we think about succession planning, or even just how you run the business day to day, a great part of annual planning, as well as just checking in throughout the year, is what are your leader strengths and where should they be visible? Where do people expect them to be visible, where it would be weird if they weren’t? And as your company grows, the personal brand of the CEO will be leveraged differently. So in the beginning, if you are a solopreneur or you just start owning a franchise, it’s the franchise brand that can help you grow. If you don’t have a franchise, then it’s your reputation that helps your new business brand grow.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (08:48):
However, as we all know, we have to think about why did you start your business? Are you going to exit at some point, are you going to bring in co-owners? Are you going to have a lifestyle business? Do you want to sell? All of those answers will shape how visible is the CEO brand versus the company brand? Because if someone’s going to buy your franchise or buy your business, they’re not keeping you as the CEO on board. They want to know that all of that knowledge expertise, IP has been embedded in the organization. Because they’ll pay more for that. If everything walks with the CEO and people only know the brand of the CEO, then that actually does a disservice to the business.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (09:40):
Even if you, let’s say, you’re a family run business and you have a son or a daughter that wants to step into your shoes. Or let’s say you have someone that is a CFO that eventually might replace you as CEO. You do have to look at what are the strengths of, of your personal brand and your communication style and what are the strengths of the people coming in to replace you? And how do you do that transition so that people aren’t surprised and that the culture isn’t negatively impacted or relationships aren’t negatively impacted. Because we don’t want everything riding on one person’s personal brand. That’s that’s not going to work very well.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (10:19):
So just from a risk management standpoint, having a strategy around who is visible, where, and base it on their strengths, what they’re good at, what they like to do, I think is really important. If somebody hates writing, I’m not going to ask them to write a blog. That’s never going to work. They’re never going to do it. But if they love to speak or do nonprofit work or be visible on boards, then yes, we’ll find ways to make it work. Might be slightly uncomfortable, because it’s something new, but you have to be visible. If you’re out of sight, you’re out of mind.
Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (10:54):
Those are really great talk points. And I like this emphasis on focusing on what someone’s maybe skill set or interests happen to be. I like this, if they’re interested in, I don’t know, volunteering at the local food bank or something, let’s have that person participate and get involved. And like you said, maybe join the board or help recruit talent for that organization, whatever it might be. That’s a really interesting point. And then you also, I really like how you talked about thinking of each person and understanding their role in the organization and having their visibility around that role. So that’s really interesting. How have you kind of seen companies kind of go about that? We’re at the first of the year here, so there are a lot of annual plans and quarterly plans happening. So when do you have these kinds of conversations with your team or whether you’re a solopreneur or a company with thousands of employees, when do you start to have that conversation?
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (12:04):
I think these conversations need to happen all of the time. But from a structure standpoint, if you’re looking at the year and you’re thinking about what are the goals that we have and therefore what conversations, communications need to occur to increase the odds of our success? What do we need to do? So I’ll give a very tangible example. There’s a CEO that I was speaking with who has a technology company, and this past fall they were relying on getting chips from supply chain rate from their vendors. And they have a purchasing agent who manages the relationship with their vendor and the purchasing agent just couldn’t get chips to be sent. And the CEO was getting frustrated, so they reached out to call the CEO of this vendor.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (12:56):
And I asked the CEO, I said, well, how come you weren’t talking with them already? And he said, well, I didn’t want to step on my purchase manager’s toes. Which, I totally appreciate that. I love it when leaders are mindful of let your people be empowered and do work. I think that’s fantastic. However, from a personal brand standpoint, looking at what’s the CEO’s role, it’s to remove obstacles. Well, in this case, if they checked in with their vendors once a quarter with just a phone call, or even when the pandemic started, hey, how are you doing, is there anything you need, anything we can do to help, they then build that know, like, and trust factor. So when the CEO calls and says, hey, can we get our chips sooner? They already have a relationship built with the vendor, which might help them get those chips faster. But if you don’t have that relationship because you’re not visible that really can impact your business.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (13:52):
So again, going back to what are the business goals, who needs to be visible with which people and which relationships to build the know, like, and trust factor to hit your goals, is where I would start. And I think of it, I’m a big structure person, so I think of it in these five buckets. You want to be doing something that builds awareness. That could be community work, it could be blogging, it could be writing. It does not have to be the CEO. It’s different people on the team, but you can divide and conquer. What are you doing for business development specifically? What are you doing with your current clients specifically? For example, if you know a client contract is coming up and you want to be part of the RFP, then reach out to them several months in advance to make sure you’re checking in and being visible. You don’t want to be mad after you don’t get the contract because you forgot to be visible.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (14:47):
The fourth thing is talent. So being visible to your employees, so they have a clear career path. So they’re excited about the purpose and vision of the company. So they want to stay. And then lastly, thought leadership. So if you’re thinking about all five of those and I came up with those five to help manage myself, because again, we’re all good at certain things. Some people love to do business development, but they forget to check in on their current clients, because they want to be out talking and selling. So that structure of those five areas can help people make sure they’re not creating big gaps or big risks. So again, you don’t have to have your personal brand everywhere. You want to pick the places, the most important moments that matter and be visible and really build that consistent reputation, that consistent story.
Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (15:40):
So then it’s interesting, some of the things you’ve shared here. Because when I think of personal brand and I hear this, it’s kind of a, seems a little bit like a buzzword and phrase that’s going on. But I don’t know how many people understand it, myself included. I don’t know, really, truly understand it to the degree that you do. But I’m wondering, what you said really struck a chord with me, which was the CEO or the leader of an organization or maybe some head of a department or something, it’s not just an external facing. When I think of a personal brand, I think of someone getting on an Instagram or a TikTok reel or, or TikTok video or something and doing all these social media things and it’s really marketing, not maybe this branding development. So it sounds like it’s a lot deeper than just opening up your cell phone and jumping on LinkedIn or YouTube or something.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (16:44):
I love what you just said. And I appreciate the opening. So when I think of a brand, it is the heartbeat of an organization. It’s the purpose and mission and vision and values that are defined. And you build a brand, it’s a long term play, it’s about loyalty, it’s about consistency. It’s about being there for your audience. Marketing, like the TikTok video or the Instagram or whatever it is, is a action you take to hopefully get whoever your audience is to take an action. But the way you increase that is to have a fantastic brand. If you have a great reputation and you see an ad on TV or Facebook or whatever, and you’re like, oh, I’m going to go buy that. That’s because the brand has spent so much time building up the reputation and the trustworthiness that when they put a little marketing activity out there, you jump on it. And you used succumb to the marketing campaign, which we’ve all done. We all have those moments where we do something without thinking about it. We’re like, oh, I need those shoes, or I need to go buy that book.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (18:01):
When I think about a brand, it is a deep exercise. I mean, my tagline is reflect, stand out. It’s important to reflect on who you are, what you believe in, who are the people that you are trying to share space with, as in, what conversations are you trying to drive. What’s the impact you want to make? And it’s important to think about that as an individual and who you are and what you want and what your strengths, where do you make a difference? And then you can decide which company aligns with your values and the space you want to make an impact in. And hopefully going to make a difference.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (18:41):
Whether it’s a nonprofit, whether it’s a B Corp, whether it’s for profit, whatever it is, but knowing your personal brand makes every single interaction, every single day, much easier because you know who you are and how you want to show up. And you’re thinking about your audience because they’re who define your brand. It’s how people talk about you when you’re not in the room. It’s how people refer you, if they do. It’s if people answer your phone call when you call. Those are the things that will give you feedback on how are you showing up.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (19:17):
And a big part of discovering your personal brand is going and asking for feedback. It’s hard to self reflect on your personal brand in a vacuum. And as scary as it might be, you’ve got to go ask people for input. But you can have it be easy. You can say, hey Tom, I know we talked and we’ve been working together, how would you describe me in five words? And then just see what someone says and compare it with your own five words and just see if there’s a gap. It doesn’t have to be a performance management review, although that is important. There’s lots of ways to get feedback and get a sense of how do people see you. And that can be a scary activity, but it’s critical to really know how you show up.
Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (20:04):
Yeah. And one thing just as kind of a… You’ve given some great recommendations here, what would you suggest to someone listening in and candidly for me and others here in terms of what someone, what a leader or an organization could do right now, what could they do now to kind of start down this pathway that we’ve been talking about?
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (20:33):
I do think that much of this, it’s great if it starts with the leader and works its way down through an organization, where the leader can talk about, here are my strengths, and here’s where I have some quirks that maybe may come across and rub people the wrong way. But here’s why I’m quirky. So some of this is inviting people in to understand more about who you are. What do you like? What don’t you like? One of my clients, he was a drummer in a past life now he’s the VP of technology for a company. And so I asked him, I said, listen, if you could pick five songs that represent your leadership beliefs, what would they be? And he was like, oh, I can’t wait to do that.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (21:23):
So your personal brand is blending all of you. It’s not just who you are at work. It’s what do you genuinely like? What gets you excited? So I think people can start to really think about who are they, what gives them energy, what do they love working on that they could spend 10 hours and it could feel like a minute, and then just start sharing that. The more we can share our strengths, the more we can share what things maybe don’t give us energy or get us excited. Then we can start working on the right work. I mean, that’s why I started my business. I remember this metric and it really hasn’t changed much, which was 80% of people don’t love the job they’re in. And all I could think was, wow, if people knew their strengths and their purpose and could communicate it and work on the work that they love, wouldn’t the world be a better place?
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (22:21):
And I realize that sounds a bit hokey and naive, but at the same time, if you look at the great resignation, people are starting to think about what is meaningful work. And so leaders can start to have those conversations for themselves and with their team on what do people find meaningful and just start discussing it and then start thinking about how does that shape how we communicate, how does that shape the projects we work on, or who works on what? And really challenge how they do career planning. That’s something that most companies don’t have. If you’re in a franchise or even in a business and you’re growing, what’s the career path, because a lot of people will leave if they don’t feel like there’s a career path. So how do you get in front of that and set a vision and a brand for a company that’s compelling and then do the one, two punch of have amazing leaders with really intentional personal brands that bring it all together.
Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (23:22):
Wow. That’s phenomenal. Thank you. Thank you. And, well, this is a great time for us to make a little transition here. We ask the same four questions to each guest before they go. And the first question we like to ask is, have you had a miss in your career along the way and something you might have learned from it?
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (23:43):
Absolutely. I hope we all have misses. Success is the worst teacher. Ironically when I went to start my business, I just wanted to start. And I was like, oh, I can’t wait to start and start working with people. So I did not do a great job of picking a company name for my company brand. So I had to pivot and adjust to that over time, which makes me chuckle, because I’m a branding person. Like, really, you didn’t think more about that? And it’s like, no, you’re excited to start your business. So be careful what you name your business.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (24:17):
I think the second miss and I think this is true for, for everybody, when you start your business or as you grow your business, make sure you know where you’re investing, not only your time, but your resources. When should you hire an expensive company to outsource, or when should you not? It could be very easy to think that if you buy a technology or platform, all of your problem will be solved and you’ll scale and it’ll be magical, but you really want to step back and think about what would have to be true for this to work, and is that the right investment? So just grow very intentionally and it doesn’t mean you can’t take risks, but just really think about what else has to work for this financial expense or expensive time to give me the right return on investment.
Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (25:12):
Oh, that’s great. Thank you for sharing that. And let’s talk about a make. Can you share a make or two that’s come along the way?
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (25:20):
Sure. I think going back to, what is it about my personal brand? I love theater. I always wanted to be an actor. So how does that show today? Well, I love speaking and I think for me, speaking about personal brand, being gutsy and writing about personal brand, getting on podcasts and panels, that’s been a huge value add from a visibility standpoint and also just ongoing development of my own thought leadership. What do I believe matters? How do CEOs need to adjust this year? And what should they be thinking about for personal brand this year that was different than last year? So for me, I think a big make is get out there and be visible. It made a huge difference for me. And it’s definitely something that each CEO and leader should think about. Where do they want to be visible that they can double down because that can be a big revenue driver.
Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (26:23):
Hmm. Great. And, let’s talk about this idea of a multiplier. The show’s called Multiply Your Success. So we always like to learn about a multiplier or two that you’ve used as you’ve grown personally, professionally along the way.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (26:38):
I think the biggest multiplier for me, and I love this question, when I first started my first year in business, I wanted to work with 10 clients. And then my second year I was like, I want to work with a hundred clients. But at some point that math doesn’t work because you only have so much time. And so when I started to think about, well, if I want to 10X every year, the people I impact and not get so wrapped up around revenue, although obviously I care about revenue, but I really wanted to impact people. And that forced me to shift how I did my work, how I delivered my work, it’s what inspired me to write two books, so I could impact a hundred thousand people. It’s what drove doing webinars and speaking.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (27:32):
So I think revisiting your goals and going big and saying, well, what if we double or triple every year, what would have to be true for that to work? And do you rethink some of those metrics to really get to a more exciting, more powerful multiplier and outcome? So that was the one that really was a game changer for me, was to shift from being so caught up on revenue to really think about if I want to impact people, then what do I need to do differently?
Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (28:08):
Hmm. Yeah. I really like that. Well, this is a perfect segue into the final question we ask everyone, which is what does success mean to you?
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (28:20):
Such a powerful question. Success for me is really about what is it that people need to hear to help them be more confident, to help them be themselves, and be authentic? In a world that every day is trying to get you to conform, how do you really step back and think about who do you want to be and where can you make a difference? So for me, it’s all about helping people find their passion, their purpose. So you can’t just be passionate without skills. You have to have skills to go with it, and then moving the needle on their visibility and impact. So for me, that’s what success is.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (29:06):
So whether you are an individual, whether you’re working at a Fortune 500 and that’s who I’m coaching, my job is to help people figure out their authentic self, to help them be intentional and be gutsy. So my job is to help them figure out their passion and purpose and move the needle on their visibility and impact. So if I’m doing that, if I’m reminding them telepathy is not a strategy and personal branding is not personal bragging. And just to be yourself in a world, that’s always trying to tell you to conform, then I’ve done my job.
Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (29:49):
Amazing. Well, Jen, this has been a fantastic interview. And for someone that’s maybe interested in trying to figure out their personal branding and maybe they’ve tried it, or would like some help along the way, I think that’s something you could probably help them with. So how can they maybe learn more about connecting with you for maybe an initial consultation or where can they find your books? Give us a little way to reach out to you.
Jen Dalton, BrandMirror (30:17):
Absolutely. So I do love personal branding conversation and I do complimentary consults. So you can visit brandmirror.com and grab some time with me just to talk about where are you at, what are you thinking about. People can also connect on LinkedIn with me and I love that. I’ve got lots of content and blogs and videos there as well. And of course I’m on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn. So feel free to follow me. But reach out. You can always shoot me an email. Jendalton@brandmirror.com and I will be on the lookout for more personal brand conversations.
Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (30:54):
Jen, thank you so much again for a great interview and for sharing such wonderful information. Let’s go ahead and jump into our three key takeaways. So takeaway number one is when Jen was talking about why some leaders don’t have, or don’t focus on a personal brand. And she gave some great reasons, and I would definitely fall into this bug in myself. Maybe you do, too. But one was just the lack of time, just as a leader of your company. Time is always a precious thing. Or someone maybe thinks personal branding is personal bragging, or maybe you just don’t know where to start. So I thought those were just some key things to talk about there.
Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (31:40):
Take away number two is when you start building your personal brand, you need to have a strategy. And one way to just kind of get the ball moving to talk about your personal brand and kind of start defining that personal brand is to ask people who work for you, advisors, maybe even some family members, what they think or how they would describe you in five words. What five words would they use to do that?
Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (32:09):
Take away number three is when Jen gave us those five steps to build a personal brand. And she talked about these five things to be thinking about and to pick, just even to start, just pick one of these areas to begin. And she said, number one, do something to build awareness about you. Anything to just get started. Number two, maybe choose business development or new client development. Number three is current clients in doing something with, or for current clients. Number four was staff and talent and number five was thought leadership. So these are five areas for you to maybe pick one of these, to just get started.
Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (32:53):
And now it’s time for today’s win-win. So today’s, win-win comes from when Jen gave just this great nugget of information that personal branding is not personal bragging. And I think that’s something oftentimes I’ve seen business owners and leaders struggle with. And I know it’s something I’ve struggled with. Where do you draw that fine line between bragging and branding? And so one of the things she mentioned was that personal brands need to be genuine, intentional and authentic. And lastly, the final takeaway is that if you are not telling your story and putting it out there, someone else will. So if any other motivator might need to be there, if you aren’t doing it, someone else is going to. And you are going to be able to tell your story better than anyone else.
Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (33:53):
And so that’s the episode today, folks. Please make sure you subscribe to the podcast and give us a review. And remember if you or anyone you know might be ready to franchise their business or take their franchise company to the next level, please connect with us at bigskyfranchiseteam.com. Thanks for tuning in. And we look forward to having you back next week.