Using the Enneagram in Business—Steph Barron Hall, Founder, Nine Types Co.

Have you heard of the Enneagram? If you have, how can you use it to improve your business? If not, you need to listen to this episode. Our guest today, Steph Barron Hall, is an expert on the Enneagram and its use in teams and business.

  • Take Steph’s free Enneagram Assessment Guide = CLICK HERE.
  • Follow Steph on Instagram and join her community of more than 300,000 followers = CLICK HERE.
  • Buy a copy of Steph’s book, “The Enneagram in Love” = CLICK HERE.
  • Check out Website = CLICK HERE.
  • Listen to Steph’s Podcast, Ask Your Enneagram Coach = CLICK HERE.
  • If you are ready to learn more about franchising your business = CLICK HERE. 

Stephanie Barron Hall (M.A. Communication & Leadership) is a speaker, certified Enneagram coach, author of the book, The Enneagram in Love: A Roadmap for Building and Strengthening Romantic Relationships. Stephanie founded her Instagram page, @NineTypesCo, in 2017 as a way to explore her own interest in the Enneagram, and it has since grown into a community of people who are learning about the Enneagram, themselves, and their relationships together. Stephanie specializes in bringing clarity to complex concepts and communicating the Enneagram in a way that is relatable and concise so that it can be transformative for all.


This episode is sponsored by Big Sky Franchise Team. If you are ready to talk about franchising your business you can schedule your free, no-obligation, franchise consultation online at: or by calling Big Sky Franchise Team at: 855-824-4759. 


Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (00:01):

You’ve worked hard to build your business and now it’s time grow. To welcome to the Multiply Your Success Podcast. I’m your host, Tom DuFore CEO of Big Sky Franchise Team and a serial entrepreneur. And if there’s one thing I’ve learned in life and in business, it’s that you can always make things better. Our purpose for this podcast is for you to glean some wisdom and practical ideas to implement on your expansion journey. And as we open the podcast today, I have a question for you about your core motivation and drivers and why you do what you do.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (00:39):

And that’s a big buzz word here. And buzz thinking as of lately, the last several years, Simon Sinek has been popular with his book and some of the works that he has done, but really understanding your why. Why do you do things? Some people call it your purpose, your calling, but the core motivation behind it and more so than just you’re doing it for your kids. There’s a driver. Why are you doing that for your kids? Or maybe to prove someone wrong, or maybe it’s because you’re looking for achievement or whatever that might be, there’s a driver to it. And how do you understand it? And there are lots of different kinds of personality tests and assessments and things out there to help you understand some of your behaviors, but not why you do what you do.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (01:29):

And that question can be answered or can help to be answered through this personality profiling system through the Enneagram. And if you’ve never heard of it, or maybe you’ve dabbled in it a little bit, we have an awesome, awesome guest today who’s going to talk about the Enneagram, which helps you to uncover why you do things you do. So your core motivation and motivators.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (01:58):

Our guest today is Stephanie Barron Hall. And she’s a speaker, certified Enneagram coach, author of the book, The Enneagram in Love: A Roadmap for Building and Strengthening Romantic Relationships. She founded her Instagram page, which is @ninetypesco in 2017, as way to explore her own interest in the Enneagram. And it has since grown into a community of people by the way, over 300,000 people who are interested in learning about the Enneagram themselves and their relationships together.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (02:28):

Stephanie specializes in bringing clarity to complex concepts and communicating the Enneagram in a way that is relatable and concise so that it can be transformative for all. And this is exactly why I wanted to have Steph on the program. She makes things simple, clear. I’ve been following her on Instagram for a while, and you’re really, really, really going to enjoy her interview. So let’s go ahead and jump right into it.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (02:52):

I’m Steph Barron hall and I call myself a variety of things. One thing I do is a team culture consultant so I work with teams with the Enneagram, help them understand each other better. And also in general, I just talk with people about the Enneagram. The Enneagram is a personality tool that is oriented around nine core motivations. And so I use it for growth and for communication and just to improve people and their relationships altogether.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (03:19):

Oh, that’s amazing. Well, I am familiar with the Enneagram, but if someone who’s listening who says, “Ennea-what?” I would like for us to jump into it, however, before we go into an explanation or overview of the Enneagram, how did you get into the Enneagram? Where did that come from?

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (03:39):

Yeah, it’s kind of an interesting story. So I have always been interested in human personality. I mean, I went to college and in my undergrad I got a degree in psychology. And so from there kind of started using personality frameworks in the workplace. And so my first job out of college, I was working on a management team actually, and we used a different personality framework and I was just able to see what a cool tool these frameworks can be with teams. And then I was introduced to the Enneagram and I really just dove headlong. And if anyone listening knows the Enneagram, this is a very common experience where you’re like, okay, now I have to read every single book possible about it. So, and then people started asking me to come and teach them, and then I pursued a certification and then a master’s degree to kind of all culminate into what I do now.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (04:37):

Wow, amazing. Well, I definitely fall into your bucket of people who learn about this and start reading all kinds of things about it, including your book, by the way, I am going to be making sure we give a nice plug for your book, The Enneagram in Love. So let’s talk a little bit about your book and what inspired you to do that?

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (04:58):

Sure. Yeah, it’s kind of interesting because it was a book that was pitched to me. And when it first came up, I was like, “Huh. In love, I don’t know.” But I’d always dreamed of writing a book and just the really cool thing that I’ve been able to observe after putting it out in the world is that it’s really just like you were saying earlier, it’s interpersonal communication. My master’s degree is in communication and leadership. And so I’m very well acquainted with this concept of building interpersonal communication and using it at all levels. And so that’s kind of what it’s like. So basically it goes through an overview of the Enneagram in a really kind of almost beginner way and then goes into each of the types and how they communicate and then each of the 45 type pairings. So one and one, one and two, et cetera.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (05:47):

Great. Well, this is a great segue and I’d love to kind of move into this anticipation we’ve been building here on what the Enneagram is for someone who’s maybe not familiar with it. And you gave kind of a general overview about it, but if we could take a little time and talk through each of the different numbers and some general overview on each number type, that would be great.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (06:15):

Sure. So, like I said, it’s a personality framework that’s oriented around nine core motivations. And the reason why that’s important is a lot of the time we look at somebody who’s super type A, or always on time, or maybe a little bit more quiet and we say, “Okay, they must be this personality type.” But the Enneagram just works differently. So it rather than being about behavior, it’s about why you do what you do. And that’s kind of part of the reason we’re able to have nine specific frameworks, or nine specific boxes. I wouldn’t really say boxes because I think people are really resistant to feeling like they’re put in a box, but these nine archetypes really. And so they have this underlying core motivation, the beauty of-

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (07:02):

And Steph… Sorry to interrupt you there. But you mentioned something that… I actually listened to some of your podcasts and one of the things that really resonated, you hear something over and over and finally someone says it and it clicks. And that happened to me when you talked about the why behind it and it being different from other personality profile tests and assessments. And so for someone who’s maybe tuning in, maybe you’re familiar with DiSC or Myers-Briggs, or a Strengths Finder, some of these others, maybe talk a little bit how maybe it’s even just similar or different from those.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (07:40):

Yeah, for sure. So people who are really, really into Myers-Briggs get into the cognitive functions and these different things, and there can be some similarity there. But what I would say is a big difference between the Enneagram and these other systems is that they typically describe how you are, how you behave, what you’re like. The Enneagram, because it goes into the core motivation. It also really identifies shadows, blind spots, some of those aspects of ourselves that either we choose not to look at, or our psyche is literally like, that’s too painful, we’re just going to pretend that’s not there. And so we’re really unaware of it. And so that’s the big difference with the Enneagram.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (08:24):

It’s very growth oriented. It’s very much about like, okay, here’s this pattern. This is what’s underneath that pattern, this pattern isn’t serving me, how can I do something different? And so it can be a fantastic and powerful tool and it can also be really challenging. For me when I first found my Enneagram type, I was like, “Oh wow, I don’t like this” Because it really does identify some of those things we don’t love about ourselves.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (08:51):

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And one of the things I know as we have embraced the Enneagram internally at our companies and with what we do is it has helped, I think, improve communication between just even coworkers. I can vouch it’s helped my marriage significantly. It’s been wonderful and working with that, but especially for the coworkers, I found that it’s been very helpful in just how I, even for me, how I approach someone, if I understand what their Enneagram number or type might be, I’m able to share or communicate the same message just in maybe a more thoughtful way to take how they interpret that information differently than maybe I would interpret it. So could you maybe share or talk a little bit about how you see it work in the workplace or how someone might use the Enneagram in their small business? Most of our audience are small business owners, or growing thriving businesses and how they might be able to use it.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (10:00):

Absolutely. Yeah. So the biggest way that I see it happening is we have this very human tendency to assign our motivation to other people’s behavior because we just think, oh, they think like I do, or they act like I do. So one of the ways this works out is for example, if I get really quiet when I’m angry, and I notice somebody else getting quiet, I might assume that they’re angry. And so I behave in a way that is responding to that assumption. But if I know that somebody else, maybe they get quiet when they’re tired or they get quiet when they’re thinking, or they’re just quiet in general, then I can kind of break away that assumption of assuming anger and allow them to kind of have their own approach or own perspective and their own experience. And so that can be really helpful for communication because it opens up a little bit more of the conversation rather than kind of shutting it down.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (11:02):

And the other big thing too, is just knowing how people communicate. So for example, I see this all the time, you’ll have a type three, we can get into the types of bit, but you’ll have a type three who’s very much about efficiency, the bottom line communicator. So they’re like, “I’m just going to give you the bottom line. You can ask questions if you have questions.” And then you’ve got a type five or a type six who they want all of the information possible upfront. And so they are asking a million questions, the type three is like, “Well, why are you pushing back? Why are you asking all these questions.” And the type five or six is feeling like, well, you’re not supporting me. You’re not giving me all the information that I need to make a good decision. How can I work in this environment? But if you know those things about one another, the three can proactively say, “I’m going to give you all the information up front.” And the five or six can say, “Okay, I’m going to ask you some questions because I need to more.” And it’s not personal anymore.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (11:59):

Yeah. That’s great. That’s great feedback and information just on the tool itself. And let’s take a little bit of time here and walk through each of the numbers on the Enneagram and just give an overview for someone who’s maybe being exposed to it for the first time or hasn’t been using it for years.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (12:20):

Sure. So I just want to preface this by saying most of us identify a lot with a lot of these core motivations, but we have one that’s really driving. And so it kind of takes some digging. There’s a lot more to it. It’s a very complex tool, which means there’s endless amounts to know, but also it can be very difficult for the beginner to kind of really grasp. So if you’re like, wow, I resonate with all nine. There can be some meaning in that as well, but also get curious about it, get curious about yourself and kind of start digging deeper.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (12:54):

So I’ll start with type one. Type ones are motivated by this need to be good and really good and have integrity and to be moral and ethical in whatever way that means for them. So it’s not saying that there’s a specific level of ethics, it’s whatever it means for them. Type twos are motivated by the need to be loved and lovable. And they really believe that the best way to do that is to be really helpful and to kind of support others in their needs. Type threes are motivated by the need to be worthy and valuable. And so the best way for them to do that is to gain success and to be admired by others. So they tend to be really productive and achievement oriented. Type fours are motivated by this need to feel deeply understood and to really find their true self. So they want to be understood not only by others, but also by themselves. And so they’ll kind of pursue this lifelong identity quest.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (13:50):

Type fives are very cerebral and they have this need to be competent and self-sufficient. And so they gain all the knowledge possible in order to support themselves in that way. Type sixes are motivated by the need to have security and safety and basically build alliances around them so that they are supported. They have community, they’re supported, they feel secure and safe. And so they do a lot of things like building alliances, but also really planning ahead to make sure that they can troubleshoot all the options. Type sevens are motivated by this need to be free, to explore the world and explore every opportunity. And so they tend to be really enthusiastic, really fun loving, and just pursue everything possible. They believe anything is possible for them.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (14:37):

Type eights are motivated by the need to protect themselves from vulnerability or betrayal. And so they kind of have this strong, tough, outer exterior, and they’re very driven and they really want to make a big impact in the world. And then type nines are motivated by the needs to be at peace internally and externally. And so sometimes they can have a tendency to kind of shut down a little bit because of that, but they really are pursuing this concept of peace and everyone just getting along and having harmony. So that’s a very, very basic quick overview of the nine types.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (15:09):

Yeah, no, thank you. That’s absolutely very succinct and well said. Thank you for that. And I will say that when I first was exposed to the Enneagram and I heard some people talking about it, I started listening to the numbers. I said, “Oh, that’s my number. I know it. I know that’s me right there.” And I thought I was a certain number of based on behavior. I saw kind of certain characteristics and traits and things. I said, “Oh yeah, that’s definitely me.” I thought I was a three on the Enneagram based on my background, my career, I said, “Oh goodness, this is so me.” And after I really did some digging, I read a few books. I really, I went very deep to really make sure I was right and I should have known my behavior and figuring it out was the right indicator that I’m actually a one on the Enneagram.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (16:03):

And so I was not expecting that. And a one wing two as I learned more about it. So for those as they dig deeper into it, so what would you suggest is maybe an initial step for someone who’s learning about this or getting exposed, what’s a good place to start? They’re hearing this something we could resource, you have phenomenal, phenomenal… By the way, you’ve got to follow her on Instagram. Her posts are phenomenal. Just content rich great stuff. So I’ll give you a plug there for sure. We’ll list your Instagram in the show notes.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (16:40):


Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (16:40):

But what are some resources that you offer that you could turn our folks to?

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (16:47):

Yeah. So the first thing is just, I have an online self typing guide. It’s free. You can take a test. That’s totally fine. Sometimes they can be helpful. For me, that was the best way to find my type. But a lot of the time people get really married to the results. They don’t do that further investigation. They’re like, “Well, this test says I’m this, and so I must be.” So I have a self typing guide and also a link to a free quiz online. And I kind of recommend using those two things in tandem and just really narrowing it down. So narrow it down to a couple, maybe two or three types that really, really strongly identify with your why. Not what you do. Again, like you were just saying, but why you do it. And then there are tons of free resources also on my Instagram, but you could listen to podcasts.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (17:42):

You could literally go in your podcast app and search Enneagram two and probably find interviews with an Enneagram two. And just be able to identify it a little bit further that way. Because I really find that the experience of listening to somebody else talk about what it’s like to be inside their head helps you to understand, oh, that’s totally me, or, oh no, that’s not me at all.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (18:04):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. Thank you. And I would suggest just to someone, I loved your book. I thought it was awesome. I’ve read it. My wife and I went through it together. And I actually wrote my wife, I gave it to her… This is a gift to my wife that I then took and used anyway, but I gave it to her for Valentine’s day.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (18:22):

Oh that’s sweet.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (18:22):

And I wrote her a little note on there and then we went through it together. So if you’re not sure or you’re looking to do it, I would suggest also buying a copy of her book. She didn’t put me up to this, but truly, it’s a great way to start and go through this with your spouse, with your sweetie, with your partner, whomever that you’re in that relationship with. It’s just a great tool for you to discover it together. And I know my wife and I, we very much enjoyed learning about the Enneagram together. It’s been a journey that we’ve enjoyed and it’s really improved our relationship. And really we’ve always had a strong relationship, improved communication and how we communicate and understanding when those times get difficult. Oh, wait, she’s feeling this way. I have to remember she needs this, and whatever it is at that moment. So it’s been very helpful.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (19:14):

I’m so glad to hear that.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (19:16):

Yeah. Well it’s time to get you into the hot seat here, Steph.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (19:21):

All righty.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (19:21):

And I’d love to convert to kind of the formula for the show. And we talk about this idea of misses, makes, and multipliers, and you’ve had a decorated career and we start first with a miss and something you learned from it. So would you mind sharing that?

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (19:40):

Sure. So here’s a big one and this is definitely going to be really helpful for people if anyone listening is either in high school or college or advising somebody in high school or college, is one thing I wish that I would have done is get a business minor. I love my psychology degree, loved every class, but I do wish I’d gotten a business minor because that’s so advantageous for everything you’re going to do. And most things, I mean, even jobs that you wouldn’t anticipate are entrepreneurship in some sense. If you’re going to open your own therapy practice or if you’re going to be a hairstylist, those are both entrepreneurial ventures. And so that’s a big one. And then something I’ve heard, some of your past guests say is not shifting from hobby mindset to business mindset fast enough, if that makes sense.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (20:38):

That’s a really good one. That’s a really good one. Can you share what that means to you?

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (20:43):

Sure. So I started my current business selling coffee mugs. Okay. So like I said, I love the Enneagram and I was listening to a podcast about entrepreneurship and my previous side hustle had ended, and so I was like, “All right, so what’s my next one going to be?” And I was like, “You know what? I could sell coffee mugs for each of the Enneagram types.” So I hired a designer, I set it all up by, I had been working in merchandising previously. And so it kind of was how my brain was already working. And so I did all of that, but then I wasn’t building out the business really. I was just selling coffee mugs on Instagram. And so I think if I had shifted a little bit to how do I make this a viable business? How do I expand the product lines, et cetera. I think that that would have really set me up for success in that way.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (21:38):

Ah, interesting. Well, I think it’s something that we talk about often and in fact, we have a client we work with and this whole idea of coming into the business with a, are you doing this, is this a hobby? Or is this a business? Because he’s in an industry where there are a lot of hobbyists out there.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (22:00):


Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (22:01):

And so there are folks who inquire and so I really… That makes a great, it’s a great point. Don’t just do it as… Is this full-time, are you making this happen here? Well, great. Well, how about this idea of a make, would you mind sharing a make or two along the way and what you learned from it?

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (22:23):

Sure. I think one of my biggest things has been really staying true to my values as a person. So one of the challenges with the Enneagram, especially kind of when I started my account was seeing all these things popping up that were like, just little memes or little illustrations, which can be fun, but sometimes they lack the depth of the real Enneagram content. And so I was watching all of these accounts, just explode and grow with followers. One thing, one little tidbit followers do not equal customers. So everyone needs to keep that in mind. But I was seeing all these things explode and expand. And I was like, “Man, I really wish that my account was growing in that way.” And should I just default to that? Should I just move to that perspective? And then I was like, “No, because that’s not what I care about. I care about bringing real depth and actually treating this tool with some reverence of how valuable I think it is.”

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (23:23):

And so staying true to the really meaty content in a sense was important to me. And I think that’s really shown in the way that my account has grown now on Instagram, but also in the opportunities that are presented to me because not everyone who follows me knows that I actually have training in organization development, but they know that I bring a lot of depth to the Enneagram tool. And so I’m still able to get those contracts that I really enjoy, and working with organizations that I really enjoy because they’re able to see the proof right there.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (24:03):

Yeah. And I echo your content is very in-depth, it’s very… You said it very well there, it’s one of the things I actually appreciate about following what you produce. And I would say early on when I first started getting into the Enneagram, I don’t know that I would have been able to really grasp all of the depth that’s there. I’ve loved your graphics images. It’s conveyed in a very friendly, approachable way. And the more I learn and understand about it, I found that I’m able to actually… What you’re providing is far deeper than what I realized maybe the first time I looked at an image or something that you had posted about. So I really appreciate that just as someone who is a fan and follows the work that you do. So I appreciate that.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (24:52):

Thanks so much. Yeah.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (24:53):

Yeah. Well, let’s talk a little bit about this idea of a multiplier and how have you used a multiplier in your pathway to where you are today?

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (25:05):

Yeah, definitely. The biggest one for me has been investing back into myself. For so long I had this concept that oh, I just need to make more money. And so I’m going to keep expenses very low, but actually investing back in myself through education has been very powerful, but also through hiring a virtual assistant. So for me, I was like, “I can do all of this.” But it was exhausting. And also I was taking five days to get back to people’s emails because I just didn’t have the time. I think also creative entrepreneurship is a bit of a funny thing because I can do the business side, but I’m much more of the creative side and I’m much more of the thinking brain side of it too, more than the admins stuff.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (25:55):

And so hiring a VA last year I thought, you know what? I don’t actually have a game plan for exactly how this is going to return on this investment, but I know that this is the next step because I’m limiting myself by assuming that I can do it all myself. So for me, hiring a VA has really helped me to get some of the bigger contracts that I have this year that I wouldn’t have been able to, because I wouldn’t have had the time to pursue them. I wouldn’t have had the space to manage all of the admin aspects of it. So I think that’s been the biggest thing. And I’m still like, I mean, it’s like a one person show over here for the most part, but I do have my VA and that’s been incredibly valuable.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (26:43):

Yeah, that’s a great… Getting those tasks off of your… Especially the tasks that maybe you don’t enjoy. So they naturally fall behind because you’re not… I really don’t want to check my email for the next couple hours. I’d rather be doing the creative work or whatever, you’re talking to a client or whatever you’re more interested in. I love that. The last question we ask every guest is what does success mean to you?

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (27:11):

I think success means to me making an impact in people’s lives, in tandem with making an impact in my own bank account. I think that’s really important. I love making an impact in people’s lives, but if it’s not actually also allowing me a lifestyle where I can continue to do that, then what’s the point? We both need to grow from it. So I think that’s the biggest thing. And then the ultimate measure of success for me, actually, it would be being able to just… My husband has been very supportive these past few years as I’ve gone on this entrepreneurial journey. Prior to this, I was actually a wedding florist and he acted as my assistant frequently. And so for success for me, would be able to kind of bank roll him as he goes and pursues his dreams. Since he’s been supporting me cheering me on as I’ve been doing this these past years.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (28:04):

Oh, that’s great. I love that. Well, it again, I know I’m doing a plug here, but truly the support of your spouse, the support at home it-

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (28:12):


Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (28:12):

Makes all of what you do feasible. So I know I can say the same. I relate to you very well there. Well Steph, what is a way for someone to get in contact with you, to make sure that… I know we talked a little bit about it, but what’s the best way, go to your website. How can they get in touch with you or learn more about what you’re doing?

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (28:37):

Definitely. My website has basically everything else that I do on it. So that’s and you can book a consultation for working with me with your team, or if you want to do a typing session and talk more about your type one-on-one. You can book those there. You could also grab my book. You can grab myself typing guide. You can also be redirected to my Instagram, which has most of my other content. So those are the best ways. And yes, like we’ve mentioned, I have my book, The Enneagram in Love. My podcast is called Ask an Enneagram Coach. And my Instagram page is called Ninetypesco.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (29:14):

Ninetypesco. Great. And Steph, talk a little bit about this. I’m interested, do you do or will you work with teams or multiple groups? A lot of the folks who maybe will be listening to the podcast are people who own franchise companies and they have lots of franchisees all over the country or they’re a growing enterprise and they have maybe people spread out. Do you work with groups in that regard? And how does that generally go?

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (29:45):

Definitely. So everything is basically virtual at this point. So I’ve had a few clients who are franchises. So one of the ways that we do that is working mostly with the management teams or working mostly with a specific, the women in leadership team or something like that. So I’ll go in and work with that specific team and teach them the Enneagram and help them with the communication. And depending on the role, either people will say, “Okay, I’m going to go and take this learning back to my team that I work with, the people that I manage.” Or I’ll have people say, “Okay, now we’re going to work on this together as a team and work on team dynamics.” So it can kind of go either way.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (30:29):

But I have a few topics that I typically talk about. So leadership, stress, which is very popular, communication and then just kind of overall working with the Enneagram and how to bring it at work. And so people just join on Zoom or whatever service that they use. And we have a great time. One to two hours is typical, and then they’re able to kind of apply those learnings afterwards.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (30:59):

So more of a kind of a train the trainer kind of a thing, working with the leadership or ownership, and then they implement it throughout the company there.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (31:08):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (31:09):

Great. Well, is there anything as we’ve gone through this that you were hoping to get across, if you made some notes or make sure you conveyed that you haven’t had a chance to?

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (31:20):

Yeah. I think that one big thing that I think that the Enneagram can help with, and also, I think this is really valuable for people, especially with small businesses overall, is understanding the value of working with people, whether that’s on social media and talking with them via comments and DMs and things like that, or just working with their employees or clients and kind of bringing that whole person aspect into perspective, I think is super important. As we all know, we’ve been hearing about emotional intelligence, it’s been in the research for a couple of decades, but there aren’t that many tools that actually help you build real emotional intelligence. And so I just think the Enneagram is a fantastic way to do that.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (32:06):

Yeah. I agree. I’ve worked with so many of these different personality assessments and profiles and they’re helpful. I found they’re helpful and they… But the Enneagram’s the first one where I can say for me personally, where it was that literal life-changing, where I’d do a DiSC or this or that, I’d say, “Yeah, that sounds like me.” But my inside didn’t, it just didn’t feel right on the inside. And then once I was exposed and learned about it and able to learn from people like you along this journey of self discovery, it’s really been impactful. So I appreciate your work and everything you’re doing.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (32:51):

Absolutely. Yeah. It is, what I love about it too, unlike DiSC is you go to work and you use DiSC, when you take it home, you’re not operating in that same role. So you can’t exactly use the same tool, but the Enneagram, you can use it anywhere. And that’s actually one thing that I’ve heard from people who’ve grabbed my book is, I actually use this with my coworkers, even though it’s called the Enneagram in Love. I use it with coworkers because it is again just interpersonal communication. And I think the more that we understand ourselves, the better we can communicate with others and the more impactful we’ll be in our workplaces, in our social spheres, and at home too.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (33:30):

Yeah. Yeah, no, that’s great. And it’s interesting you compare it with the DiSC and turning off and I just realized, so we do a DiSC and Enneagram internally. And so we do both and we use both and what’s interesting, I have two other people at our companies that the three of us are almost identical on the DiSC, extremely high I, maxed out I. Very high D, and very low on S and C, but all three of us have different Enneagram numbers. All three of us have different Enneagram numbers. And so it’s just interesting to see that. It’s like, wow, if we had only done the DiSC, we would think, well, we’re so much alike, but really we are all extremely different. It’s a one, a five and an eight on the Enneagram, but on a DiSC it’s almost identical if you see it on paper, or in the assessment there. So I really value what it’s able to bring there.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (34:33):

And that actually makes so much sense to me that you’re high I, and high D and that you’re a one who mistyped as a three.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (34:39):


Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (34:41):

That’s very fascinating. And I’m sure if anyone is listening and they know the Enneagram they’ll be like, “Oh my gosh, that makes so much sense.” Too.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (34:49):

Well, Steph, I’m so grateful for you being here and for your time. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Steph Barron Hall, Nine Types Co. (34:55):

Thanks so much for having me. This was fun.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (34:57):

Steph, thank you so much for a fantastic interview and thank you so much for the opportunity to be on our podcast. And as we go ahead and jump into our three key takeaways, this is just a quick reminder that all of the links to Steph’s books, website, to her podcast, to her Instagram page are all in our show notes as well. And now the three key takeaways. So the first is when she said that the Enneagram helps you understand the value of working with people. I thought that was awesome. I really, really liked that. And as you learn more about the Enneagram, your eyes will be opened to that as well. Number two, she said that personal development and investing in herself has been a multiplier for her. And I think that’s true for all of us. I mean, you’re here on this podcast. Hopefully you’re going and learning in other places and other ways as well.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (35:54):

So keep doing… Keep on, keeping on with that. And number three, when she gave her description of what success means to her, she said, “Success is helping others while helping her bank account.” And I thought that was great. And especially, I think for many successful small business owners and entrepreneurs, and as you’re growing your business, I think that’s something that many in my career, I’ve found have a very similar mindset and wanting to help others, but it also helps their bank account along the way.

Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (36:26):

And now it’s time for today’s win-win. So today’s win-win is about the Enneagram as a tool that you can use anywhere in your life, because it helps you identify why you do what you do, and why I do what I do. And we each do what we each do. And that’s the primary difference between the Enneagram and other personality assessments, is that the Enneagram is not just how you behave, it’s those motivators and drivers. Which those motivations are the same at home, at work, when you’re out socializing with friends or in different places in different environments, those motivators are the same. Whereas, your behaviors might change. You might have different behaviors or a role, quote role to play at home or in the office or in different meetings or around different people. At work or in a Zoom call meeting, whatever you might be doing. So that’s today’s win-win. So thanks again for tuning in folks. Please share, subscribe, pass this along to anyone who you think might be able to benefit from it. And we look forward to having you back here next week.

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